Ordered an HP Recertified Mini 1116NR from Ecost. Unit bad out of the box - speakers hiss and pop, low audio. Well, things do happen. Call HP. I knew they have moved to India, but thought they should still speak English! After over an hour of trying to load BIOS and new drivers (Oh yeah! That'll fix it!?!) their agent says I need to pay for shipping!!! There and Back!!!  
 
I wonder what "HP Certified" means? I consider an out-of-box failure for something that was obviously not checked to be the fault of the manufacturer. Silly Me! Maybe HP has some side deal with FedEx. We send defective products and you give us a kickback!  
 
I have used HP products for almost 40 years. They used to be one of the best. Now, I'm not sure which is worse. Their incredibly poor tech support, or watching the slow death spiral of another once great American company.

This review was modified by its author, Quark750, on 10/28/09 6:12 PM.

HP'S CUSTOMER SUPPORT IS SO BAD, THAT I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER MACHINE FROM THEM (EVEN THOUGHT I GENERALLY LIKE THEIR MACHINES) JUST SO I WILL NEVER HAVE TO SPEAK TO THEIR "CUSTOMER SUPPORT" AGAIN.  
We are a small retail business and we have two desktop units, two laptops a Color Laser Printer and two Deskjet printers; all HP. We ordered two desktop and one laptop unit. Since one of our Desktops had died, we ordered one of the desktops 2Day shipping. On the supposed shipping day, no fedex#. For 2 days the Customer Support agent lied to me, telling me the unit had shipped, but fedex had not transmitted a number. Poor Fedex, having everything blamed on them. Of course I knew they were lying. When HP, or any other large shipper, ships and order, they place all of the shipping info on their own computers. This is part of the process of creating the label. At this time, (while creating the shipping label) the info is transmitted to Fedex to pickup the shipment. This label has the shipping # on it and is part of the information transmitted by HP to Fedex. When Fedex posts it's first line on the tracking page, it is that they have received this transmission from HP. HP has the shipping # before Fedex. IN OTHER WORDS, IF HP DOESN'T HAVE A SHIPPING #, HP HASN'T PRINTED A SHIPPING LABEL NOR CONTACTED FEDEX TO PICK UP THE ITEM.  
When HP tell a customer that the item has been shipped, but Fedex has not transmitted a tracking # to them, they are lying. As, the continued to do for two days, while refusing to upgrade the shipping to over night to make up for the lost days. I was on the phone talking to people whose only technical skills were speaking English as a second language and putting off customers until the situation came to an end, or the customer's willingness to continue battling the tar baby. The computers arrived when they arrived, with no help from HP. Tracking #'s appeared as soon as they were shipped, days late, and the tracking #'s showed that they were shipped days late. HP never stopped lying about it, or did anything to communicate to their facilities to upgrade the shipping.  
 
Same order: After the computers arrived, and I set them up, I realized the one of the computers is also used (still) to send faxes, and I had failed to order it with a faxmodem. I ordered an internal faxmodem from Newegg (who totally rocks as a company. When it arrived, and I went to install it, the standard USRobtics PCI internal modem add on card, did not fit the add slot. Again I called HP Support and spoke to a person who's only skills were speaking English as a second language and putting me off while she spoke to her 'mentor' to come back with other questions. Look, it is really simple: From the very beginning of the call, she as the following information: The Model# and the Serial# of my machine; that I am trying to install a USRobtics 56k PCI Internal Faxmodem add on card. That the foot of the card and the slot are not compatible. For and hour, she asked questions, often repeating questions previously asked, and went off to speak to some one. Back with more or repeated questions, off to speak to some one. I asked to speak to a real tech or the person that she was going to. Every such request was ignored or deflected ("never say no, just move on" clearly here prime directive) After an hour, she gave me a case # and told me to call back in another # ("be sure to call only after 1 hour")and a supervisor would have an answer or would replace my machine. When I called back, I found out why I had to wait an hour. The call center in the Philippines had closed, and they would not have to deal with my problem any more.  
 
WHILE I WAS WAITING FOR THE HOUR TO PASS, I CALLED USROBTICS SUPPORT, AND WAS TOLD IN THE FIRST 30 SECONDS THAT THE NEW COMPUTER HAD A NEW STANDARD PCIE-16X SLOT, AND THEIR FAXMODEM WAS A PCI. VERY HELPFUL, VERY SIMPLE....MY BAD.  
 
BUT WHY DOES HP CLAIM TO HAVE A SUPPORT DEPARTMENT, THAT DOESN'T KNOW, NOR CAN FIND THAT OUT IN THE FIRST MINUTE OF A CALL, INSTEAD OF NOT KNOWING THAT AFTER 60 MINUTES.....HP IS ONE OF THE PARTIES THAT INTRODUCED THE NEW PCI-EXPANDED STANDARD.  
 
I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER HP MACHINE, AND LOOK FORWARD WITH DREAD THE 4-5 YEAR LIFE OF THE NEW MACHINES I JUST BOUGHT. HOPING AGAINST HOPE THAT I CAN GET THROUGH THEIR USABLE LIVES WITHOUT HAVING TO CALL HP FOR SUPPORT.

HP customer support is none existent. My HP Compaq notebook was the V3100 with the built in suicide mode. Yes thats right, after a while, maybe a year maybe 2 years the V3100 will shut off and the screen will not come back on and it is non responsive to any attempts to fix it.  
 
After going to HPs website i discovered the factory recall. they extended the warranty one year and allowed you to send it back in. my laptop is 4 months out of warranty and they refuse to fix it without charging me 265$.  
 
when i finally got through to the customer support escalated case unit in the USA, the lady told me there was nothing they could do. When i asked why they didn't send out some sort of warning she replied it was because "not all the laptops experience the problem"  
 
now i have a paperweight note book and a very very angry HP customer.  
 
Why should i have to pay 265$ more to fix a factory defect. that is ridiculous

I received the HP desktop PC unit broken. It took over one month and several e-mails and phone calls with a manager. Who was trying to force me to accept the product. HP does not listen to the  
customer. I would like to warn everyone that you are taking a risk doing business with HP. It has been nothing more then the biggest hassle I have had with any company ever. The cust. service managers will call and harass you even when you plead with them not to call any longer. I even contacted the corporate office and they just put me back to the the same guy that wasn't helping me to begin with. BEWARE BIG COMPANY LITTLE CUSTOMER SERVICE STAY CLEAR

I purchased a laptop (dv9548us) from Circuit City in July 2007. In July 2009 my graphics chip failed due to a known manufacturing defect involving the lead solder connection (I won't get too technical). Having determined that it was the gpu that was the problem I discovered, to my absolute horror, that there are literally thousands of hp customers with the same problem. I contacted hp with the thought that, as it is a manufacturing defect, surely they will be assisting all their customers who have this issue - WRONG! hp refuse to do anything. Sony have just announced that they will extend the warranties of their customers for 4 years in order to address this problem. hp extended the warranty for one year, on a limited range of systems, and didn't actually bother to inform their registered customers that there was any issue.  
 
I would recommend that everyone avoid hp at all costs, once they have your hard earned money, they don't care anymore.  
 
It really is a case of BUYER BEWARE!

I bought a customized HP from Costco last April 2008 & the motherboard went out in July of this year. Computers should last 3 to 4 years with no serious problems, but I had bought from Costco so I thought, "No problem, I'll have it serviced under the 2 year warranty." I got a dose of reality. You are on your own after the 90 day return guarantee. What happened is I contacted Costco's Concierge services & spoke with a "technician" for about 1.5 hours, who was clearly just reading a list of things to do. Nice person, he just didn't know much about computers. Finally, he said he could get a case number and have a box sent from the warranty company (the warranty company isn't Costco, it's a third party contractor). The return box arrived and it was too small, so I called and they informed me the computer I had bought from Costco wasn't the one in their records, they claimed the computer sent to me was a slimline (what a load of "carp"). I had my packing slip clearly stating it was an A6460t, and my receipt. After dealing with a number of other people the last person said they wouldn't honor the warranty, because there was no proof I bought the computer from Costco. Wouldn't you like to hear THAT from someone that's supposed to be providing service? I took the computer to my local Costco & spoke with three people, finally ending up with someone claiming to be a manager. I had explained the warranty refusal, shown them my proofs of purchase and the computer with matching model and serial numbers. They pointed to the 90 day return policy and refused to take the computer back. I pointed to the 2 year warranty, the accusing attitude of Costco's service company representative, their refusal to honor the 2 year warranty and asked for a return. They refused, gave me another case number, and told me to go through the process again...a "mistake" had been made, so they said. The mistake was mine, I bought a computer from Costco...buyer beware. After 90 days you are on your own, the run around begins. I'm now looking at a month or more to get my HP computer serviced, having to send it half-way across the country to a third party service provider that's proven to be untrustworthy. I'll continue buying from Costco, but never again a computer. The one star is for their cheaply built computers and service. I depend on my computers to run my business, but cannot depend on Costco to support my business critical systems. I will never buy another HP computer.

I OFFER TO BECOME PRESIDENT OF THE "I HATE HP" CLUB!!  
 
I bought a printer from HP online in October 2008. I received the printer broken. I called to have it replaced, and after waiting 2 weeks for the replacement I decided to follow up, and that is where the lack of customer service began. They told me that it would be another 3 weeks. They said they could not expedite the shipping of the product any quicker, and that was all they could offer. I told them then to forget it, cancel the order, return my money, and send me a mail slip to send the unit back. And this was after going through 10 different departments and none of who speak any English.  
 
They never sent anything to send the printer back, and after the charge hit the credit card statement came and the credit was not on there, we called our credit card company and filed a dispute. It took the credit card company a couple of months of going back and forth. Then about 3 weeks ago, 8 months after I ordered the printer and Case Manager, Roland, called and told me to keep the printer, throw it away, they didn't care, but they would issue a credit on our credit card.  
 
After the credit didn't appear again, I called HP back and asked them what was going on. Their first response was they would give me $30 less than what we paid for it, I said no, I want the entire amount. Five minutes later he said that all he could give me was 50%. They said its because I waited too long, which I guess 2 weeks is too long, but of course their internal notes show that I never called. Then they said it was my mistake for going to the wrong division. I have spent hours arguing; now I have decided to waste my time ruining their reputation.  
 
The final straw was that I finally agreed to the 50% and they now want me to send the printer back to them!!! First I thought it was bad that they wanted me to pay them $96.00 for a broken printer, but no, THEY WANT THE PRINTER BACK TOO~!!!! So they want me to spend $96 for NOTHING!!!! Because of their neglect and stupidity this multi million dollar company would rather take money from poor me and my broken printer.  

I regrettably need to add to the crowd very displeased with HP Customer Service. I purchased a HP Wireless G Print Server so that I could print wirelessly from several computers without each having to plug in. The device worked great at first but then would intermittently fail. If I take the power cord and force it harder into the Server things would work... so there is a bad connection to the power supply somewhere in the unit. I call HP and they send me to printer help and ask me for the model and SN# of my printer. I ask why that matters since this is not a printer problem. They keep asking and when I mention I could use a different printer they ask for the model and SN# of that printer. Then they tell me their computers are down and need to call me back in 15 minutes. They don't. I call back the next day... what are the model and SN# of your printer? After I give this they say that I need to speak with printer support. I say why as this is not a problem with the printer. They repeat and I respond that I will probably have better luck with them so go ahead and refer me... only to find out the office is closed and I need to call back tomorrow. So I try e-mailing them. They ask what is the model and SN# of my printer. I respond that I don't know why they need this but go ahead and give it to them anyway. No response.  
It is clear to me that the Customer Service is in some foreign country and that they all are following the same sheet with steps on it. No one is thinking and the best response to a problem is to disconnect or ignore it. And this is the abbreviated version.  
I like HP products but this is the worst tech support I have ever encountered.  
 
Update: I tried HP's e-mail tech support and after e-mail them every day for a week I finally got a response... believe it or not IN FRENCH! Now I get spam from HP every day.  
 
My advice if you find yourself in my shoes is to contact your credit card company and ask them to file a dispute. If they accept, this process can work. This is my next step.

This review was modified by its author, ostromn, on 7/12/09 5:10 AM.

Been going on 6 weeks now trying to resolve two separate issues. After doing the basic troubleshooting, where the tech person you speak/email with just goes over the same info available online, they finally agreed to replace two parts. They say they will contact me to set up the replacement. They claim they would contact me within 48 hours to set up replacement. It's been 2.5 weeks now. Every time I write back about it, they apologize, have me go through troubleshooting again, then agree to replace. Cycle repeats. Problems have been going on for a total of over 6 weeks now (the 2.5 weeks is simply the amount of time since they agreed to replace, 6 weeks is total troubleshooting) with no resolution.  
 
So, like many of the other reviews here, I say the customer service/technical support is horrible, perhaps the worst of any corporation, including the likes of cell phone carriers, which are notoriously horrible.

HP customer support is the most inadequate, disrespectful, waste of time I have ever experienced in my life!  
 
Nearly a month of emails, phone calls, and online chatting and I still have not received recovery discs that I had to order and pay for.  
 
Don't buy HP or Compaq. Read the company reviews and you'll see that HP/Compaq policies are to get customer's money and then do nothing!!  
 
HP/Compaq is one of the worst companies that I've ever dealt with in my entire life!!!

Worst Laptop I have Ever owned. Worst customer service. Refused to fix a known defect:  
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&docname=c01611512  
 
Refused to fix because I am serving my country overseas and support is only available to those in the US. This defect caused the other hinge to break so now monitor will not support its own weight.  
 
Additional problems include:  
 
1) CMOS Battery has not operated since 6 months of owning the laptop.  
2) Speakers Intermittent Functionality  
3) Power Issues - Cannot power off the laptop unless the power cord is disconnected - if power cord is connected laptop will restart over and over again.  
 
Now laptop has completely failed. Will attempt to boot to windows and go to a black screen.  
 
Attempted to resolve the problem through Customer Service. Two E-mail ignored. 6 Phone calls hung up on or transferred to the wrong extension. I AM OVERSEAS I DO NOT HAVE TIME TO CALL HP EVERYDAY.  
 

I bought the laptop on March from a BestBuy and it broke on April. The video screen got corrupted/jumbled and didn't work anymore. I sent it back to HP, through BestBuy since HP has a 1 year warranty on it. When in line at BestBuy to send it back, I found out there were 2 other people waiting in line to send their HP Laptops (the same model I had) for the exact same problem!  
HP sent it back and refused to fix it because they said the machine was "dirty". How can "dirty" be a deal-breaker?!!! I had the laptop in a normal desk setup, it didn't get any more dirty than anything else around it. Saying they won't fix something because it's "dirty" gives them card-blanch to refuse service on ANYTHING! Basically their warranties mean NOTHING!!! Don't buy from this company - they make faulty equipment that they refuse to service for any reason or no reason at all.

I waited too long to try it out my HP Pavilion m9402f or I would have returned it immediately. Worst computer purchase I've ever made.  
 
From the first time I booted it up, it has made an annoying tone-tone sound at random intervals, all the time it was running. I recognized it as some sort of warning, but couldn't find the cause or the fix. Finally, I called HP support. The agent took control of my computer and turned the sound off. Asked if there were anything else she could do. I said, "You haven't fixed the problem, you have just masked it. I want the cause fixed fixed."  
 
After she wasted about an hour of my time, I asked to get to the next level of support. Her supervisor came on and turned the sound on, but turned the particular warning sound I was getting off, and told me it was fixed.  
 
By now I had wasted a lot of time and still did not have a satisfactory fix. He offered to call me the next day and continue the process.  
 
The sound he turned off related to failure to connect and disconnect devices. I said it sounded like a hardware or driver problem. He said there is no problem with the PC, just with the sound settings. Baloney!  
 
By watching the task manager processes, I noticed that whenever the warning was raised wmplayer process would flash up and then disappear. I assume the problem is a Vista one, but their support is 1) too ignorant to find fix the problem, and 2) too eager to drop the problem without a real fix. I did point out the observation in task manager, they looked at it and ignored it.  
 
As to the hardware, it is lightning fast at times, but often slower than my single-core machines.

I have an HP Pavilion Desktop PC, model d4790y. I bought it in February of 2007 with a 3-year hourse call extended service plan. It stopped booting up a week ago, on October 12, 2008. I called HP technical support.  
 
At first, they claimed it was no longer under warranty. I had the receipt handy for the extended service plan that I bought - along with the computer - directly from HP’s website, which showed it was covered until February of 2010. I read them the order number on the extended service plan receipt receipt along with all the other information on it. I also FAXed them a copy of that receipt after that first phone call. After reading them the information on my receipt, they tried to troubleshoot the machine, which took several hours.  
 
After that first call, they couldn't determine whether it was the video card or one or more bad memory card slots. They wanted me to ship my computer to them, but I objected on the grounds that 1) According to them, I would lose all of my data, including all of the after-market programs that I had installed on my hard drive (backingup and re-installing is a pain), and 2) as I pointed out, I had paid for in-house repair. It turns out, the in-house repair is available when and if the phone techs have diagnosed the problem, since the tech who comes to the house "doesn't have the tools" for troubleshooting.  
 
So much for in-house service. I asked if further trouble-shooting could be done to pinpoint the problem. They said a supervisor would phone me back later that day to do that. I received no call back. So, I phoned them back, and after several attempts and several more hours of my time (which is valuable to me, though obviously not to them), they finally located the problem as a bad video card. I thought this meant they would be sending a technician out to repair it, but no. Suddenly, after hours of tech support on the phone, they go back to telling me that my computer is no longer under warranty.  
 
I give the all the information I gave them before (order number, item number, tracking number for the extended service plan, etc.), and also tell them that I FAXed the proof of purchase to them at the number they provided. They then offer to send me the part instead of sending a tech, and I could live with that – I can install a video card. But before they can send it, they have to verify my proof of purchase. How do they do that? They need me to FAX them my proof of purchase. I inform them that I had already done that. I was told to call back the next day.  
 
I called back the next day and was told that they had received my FAX of the proof of purchase and they had updated my warranty information. I asked when I would get my part. They said I would get it soon, but they couldn’t tell me when. They advised me to call back the next day. I called back. I got referred to a website which displayed the status of my order. The status of my order said: unshipped. Marvelous help, that! So, I called back yet another time (by now, it is Thursday, and the problem started the previous Sunday). They finally gave me a FedEx tracking number for my order which was to arrive the next day.  
 
I did not receive my part the next day. I looked up the tracking number, and it was for another person (hey – at least SOMEONE got their order from HP!). I called HP and explained the situation. After about an hour, I was transferred to the shipping department. My call was disconnected before anyone answered. The next day, I called again to check the status of my order. Again, after another hour on the phone with tech support (repeat of the day before), I was finally transferred to the shipping department. This time, I wasn't disconnected, but when I got there, I was told that HP was experiencing technical difficulties and they could give me no shipping or tracking or status information whatsoever. At this point, I started e-mailing customer support. I explained my problem. The reply that I received (it is now October 18, 2008) said,  
 
“I would like to inform that the warranty information has not been updated so far, the records in our database indicate that the PC is not in warranty. Once the POP request is received, the warranty validity team will contact you further and they will update the warranty status of the PC.”  
 
In response to this e-mail, I sent a reply explaining that I had already FAXed the proof of purchase. The second response said,  
 
“I would like to inform that records in our database indicates the PC warranty is not updated as for now. We are experiencing some technical difficulties, I am unable to trace if shipment has been initiated or not. However, if the shipment is sent to you, then a cso number might be provided to you. If so , please get back with the cso number, so that we can trace if the shipment is initiated or not. If you have been provided a cso number, then you can track the shipment.If you wish to know the delivery status please visit the following HP web site and submit the appropriate CSO number and Zip/Postal code.”  
“http://www.hp.com/go/csostatus”  
“If you need any further help in this regard I request you contact our phone support team.  
Please visit the Web site listed below for a list of available phone numbers to contact HP.”  
 
“NOTE: Out of warranty products do require a fee. “  
 
“The above information should answer your query. If you need any further assistance or clarifications, please feel free to reply to this mail. We would be delighted to assist you further.”  
 
“Sincerely,  
Gary  
HP Total Care”  
 
 
 
Well, I replied again and attached to my reply a scanned copy of my original proof of purchase. I also reFAXed a copy of the proof of purchase. I received a reply which told me that their “Quality Customer Care Group” would be contacting me by phone in the next two days.  
 
 
That’s where it is now, as of October 19, 2008. I paid $189.99 for the 3-year extended service plan, and so far, I have received nothing for it but a headache.

My LCD screen got cracked when it was in transit back to the US and when I called to see what my options were they instructed me to plug in the computer, then unplug, put in the battery, then take it out... all the while turning the computer on and off to see if there was a difference. OK, yes we all know there is a script, but are you freakin serious that I need to do that when I KNOW there is a crack in the screen? It is plain as day RIGHT THERE. Then they wanted me to try to get on the internet to talk to a tech. OK, how can I do that? REMEMBER THE SCREEN IS BROKEN??? They didnt understand the problem, they didnt understand the severity of the screen cracking and no matter how many times I told him he just couldnt grasp the concept of it being broke, and taking the battery out 5 or so times wasnt going to help. I feel like its a circus when I call. A game of who will transfer me, how many times will I have to tell my name and product/serial numbers. I can honestly say there were probably 2 people that I have dealt with this entire time that actually helped. The language barrier is ridiculous. While I do understand not only American's need employment, I do not feel that a language barrier is the best approach, despite the cheap labor, when you are dealing with technical products. So, "John" swore up and down that this problem was covered under my warrantee and they would send a box out right away to pick up my computer. Well, the box was relatively quick, but two weeks later when my computer wasnt back, seeming as though I was PROMISED by "John" it would be back in 5 - 7 days, I called and this woman had no record of my computer being fixed, received, or even an order placed to fix it. So, she transfers me and of course he has no idea what he is talking about and I go through the same thing, then I am transfered several times, once again having to explain every time and dealing with the frustration of repeating myself several times to someone who obviously doesnt understand me, and then I finally get a tech. This is the good part... Turns out it isnt covered under my warrantee, but they would be MORE than happy to fix it for some ungodly amount (I think $900) Well, where was my phone call to tell me this? Of course, he has no answer. He thought the other guy did it and I am sure the other guy thought he did it. SO... rather than me paying to fix this, I explain that I was told that it was covered and it is not fair that I was told NOTHING even after my computer was being "fixed" for two weeks, that I was told it was under my warrantee, and that now no one can or will, do anything to help me. Of course, there was nothing he could do at that point. Eventually I have to buy a $400 warranty which got my computer fixed but I was without a computer, again, for 2 more weeks. No one followed up, nothing. I also had an issue with my computer having a virus and when I wiped my computer clean and went to put microsoft office back on the computer I had no disk to put it on. I called HP and asked if they could look at my original order and see that I bought microsoft office and sure enough they saw it but could not order a CD for me because it wasnt enough proof. I went as high as they would let me go but no one, once again, could help me. Before I even suggested that they look at my original sales request and info, they were claiming the reason they could not give me another cd is because there was no proof I originally bought it. Funny how after it was able to be proved they STILL couldnt help. SO THEN... of course they can sell me a new CD for the awesome low price of $400 or so. Oh, how nice of you. No thanks. I also have a wireless mouse that I added on when the computer was purchased for me, and it suddenly stopped working. I tried to call, just a few hours ago, but when the woman answered and kept asking me to repeat my name, and everything else I said, I got frustrated and asked her to just help me or transfer me to someone who could. No, she couldnt do that. EVEN THOUGH it doesnt matter who I am, what type of computer I have, the fact is the mouse is no longer working and obviously she needed to brush up on her english. So, concluding that she could not help me and knew nothing of "this product" as she said, I had no choice but I get off the phone. (I sure do wish someone from HP would understand how AWFUL their customer service is and how unhappy their customers are) So, I go online to do a chat with a tech, who isnt usually too helpful, and of course, they were "sorry" but the chat was unavailable for my product, so I tried various other products and got the same response. What is wrong with this company? Where have they received their training in management and customer serivce? How is it that when I google HP to get to the website I see nothing but hate websites and blog websites dedicated to complaining about HP? I can VOW that I will NEVER EVER, REGARDLESS OF THE DEAL, EVER EVER!!!!!!!!!! buy ANY other HP product, and I will make sure to tell everyone I know, as I already do, how awful they are and that hp isnt worth it even if they were to give the product away for free. I am not exaggerating either. I would not even take a free HP product because the second something goes wrong the frustration in trying to fix it forces you to just live with the problem. Speaking of, that is what I am currently forced to do with my broken mouse, and also the sound bar no longer works and when I called they said it was covered under warranty but they dont know how long my laptop will take to be fixed. I jsut dont trust HP AT ALL, so I will just live with no sound and I will have to fix it myself, which is GARBAGE. How useless, customer service? Yeah right. I hope SOMEONE reads this.