Hypo-question

I have a question for all you Buyers/Sellers/Traders here on TechIMO.com. First, I'll give you the scenario. This is a fictional transaction.

Seller - Has a widget for $10 + S/H.
Buyer - Offers to buy the widget.
Seller - Tells buyer, $15 w/ S/H.
Buyer - PayPals Seller $15 and Seller ships.
Seller - Leaves Heatware for Buyer.
Buyer - Leaves Heatware for Seller after receiving item. Opens the box but fails to notice the widget is broken.
Buyer - Next day, discovers widget is broken when trying to install and promptly contacts Seller.
Seller - Does not request the widget back and offers to refund.
Buyer - Sends widget back to Seller so the Seller can see how it's broken. Spends $5 on S/H.
Seller - Refunds $10 to Buyer through PayPal.
Buyer - Contacts Seller requesting $5 more since the widget was broken.
Seller - Refunds $5 to Buyer.

Now, my question is this, should the Seller have refunded the full $15 or only been responsible for the $10. I ask, because in my book, the Buyer would be out $10 for S/H on an item that is broken. With the Seller refunding the full $15, each of them is only out $5 since the item was returned even though the Seller didn't want it back. Even if the Buyer didn't return the widget, the Buyer would be out $5 for an item that was broken. The Buyer was assured by the Seller that item was not known to be broken. The Buyer has no reason not to believe the Seller.

Also, what about Heatware? Do the evals need to be "erased" since there was no real transaction?

EDIT - Just for clarification, the Buyer is not looking to get $5 back for the S/H for sending the broken widget back to the Seller. The Buyer is just returning it so the Seller can see how it was broken. The Buyer is pretty much 100% sure the widget was not broken during shipment. The Buyer believes the Seller just didn't know it was broken to beging with. Or at least that's what the Buyer hopes anyway.

Discuss.

[rourkchris]

I've had 2 cases of damaged motherboards that I've sold. I ask them first to attempt again and to keep me informed. In both cases it turns out they were defective. The first one I replaced with a slightly newer/better model(second had onboard NIC). They sent it back and I cross-shipped the new. The second one was returned and I refunded their money+return shipping. It wasn't their fault that it didn't work so I was obligated to replace it/refund $ back. Insurance is a really good idea as in both cases I believe they were damaged during shipment. Paying return shipping should be done. Your reputation as a seller will be much better for it and that's invaluable. I'd hate to buy something and pay to return it and be out the money. I try to keep in mind how I would want it handled if roles were reversed. Makes it easy to do what's right. However I would not pay anything if a buyer came back to me in 2 months or later. There's no way for me to know who's fault it is-buyer/shippin co./manufacturer. As for changing or erasing heatware evals I just think that's a bad idea. Too much room for abuse.

[Martoch]

Originally posted by EvilRick
Now, my question is this, should the Seller have refunded the full $15

Absolutely! Not much time to discuss, but unless the seller specifically states that S/H will not be refunded if item is returned, he/she is definitely responsible for reimbursing the buyer all S/H costs associated with getting the buyer the item in good condition. If someone is selling a "non-broken" item, the buyer should receive just that...otherwise, the seller should be held liable for breaking the terms of the sale.

[rourkchris]

Should refund the full $15.00. Seller is out $5.00 and no merchandise but shouldn't have sold broken merchandise. His reputation as a seller will be worth a lot more than $5.00. Insurance is available and if the shipping co. broke it a claim can be filed. I really think that posting a FS thread and putting terms such as, "as is, all sales final", etc. should throw up a red flag. I'd steer far clear of that thread.

[ArcticFox]

Yep, I'd refund all the buyer's money because they had nothing to do with the "widget" being broken.

BTW - "widget" is a funny word.....

[RedFury]

I look at it this way.

If I'm getting prompt feedback either way, I'll work out a deal that is amicable for both the seller and the buyer. If it means I have to eat return shipping ( either way ), then that's what I'd do.

I'd rather be known as a good trader/seller, than be an EVIL TROLL.

In my case...Built a computer for a friend, assured him it was better than buying thru "x" big company...

He pays for 2 day shipping on parts, we assemble, I screw up something resulting in an RMA.

I buy the item outright, so they will cross ship in the mail, so he doesn't have to wait any longer than necessary ( paid 2 day shipping for a reason, right? ).

Now, I have an extra part on hand, which I either use myself, or sell for a small loss, or return for my money back. I'm out the shipping money 2x in this case, but I felt so damn bad for screwing up that I had to do it to save face.

Oh, he was pissed at me too, but in the end, he absolutely loves his system ( 5 times faster than his old one, and 8 times the video card ). We are both happy, and still friends.

[MDS]

seller is responsible for safe shipping of the item. It is there responsibility till the as advertise item reaches the buyer in condition stated.

[rourkchris]

Sometimes things just happen but working hard to make it right shows your integrity and that you had absolutely no intention of pawning off a broken part.

[Scott Tiger]

Well if you shipped via UPS you get the first $100 insurance "free". So the seller should make a claim.

If you shipped via USPS and didn't get insurance I think you're SOL.

[hansbroken]

I agree that the $15 should be refunded. At least, that is what I would do (and expect from another trader). It adds 'equity' to being a good trader too. Besides, I believe the philosophies of 'what comes around goes around' and 'do unto others as you want others etc...." come into play when you trade.

As far as the other $5 for the buyer sending the item back, that is an interesting point. IMO if it was not necessary (the seller did not require it back), then it is the buyer's responsibility. However, if there was a damage claim filed with the courier, then I suppose that the courier would (or should) pick up the item and take it from there -- no charge. If not, then I'm not sure what the deal would be. Hmmm, interesting.

And the Heatware evals: the deal did go through the motions of a sale (money was sent & item was received), so I think the Heat should stand. It would be nice to edit or update to note that the items were refunded / returned after the deal went through. But I don't believe it is misleading as far as evaluations are concerned if you leave it stand (unless it occurs frequently – a whole other issue there).

Lastly, when you think about it, we all have enough to deal with when we purchase from retailers -- as far as returns and refunds go and all the store policies. We don't need to do that to each other.