New Server Questions

[Einsamherz]

I think I'm going to get a green light on a new server at work, but I've got a few questions that I'd rather ask REAL fellow users rather than trusting the words of a saleperson. The budget is "as cheap as possible", I've technically got a ZERO budget, but the server is acting up and needs upgraded like MAD! So I think "reasonable price" sounds good enough . It'll have to last 3+ years too. BTW: I've got ~20 users.

My questions are:

1) Who makes a good brand of server? I was looking at IBM and Dell. Not really wanting to sell out to the Dell camp, but the price is a wee bit better. I'm looking to buy so I've got some service agreement with it so I don't have to worry about replacing "new" parts. (I build my own home PC's though)

2) I'm planning on a hot swap drive array. If I have a few internal U2 SCSI drives in my current system, can I just load them into a hot swap "sled"(?) and into the new server? I wasn't sure if the servers would include EMPTY "sleds" I could load with my old drives; it would make file transfers easier.

3) What is the REAL difference between 10k and 15k RPM drives? Would I see a "HUGE" difference? The 10k's are cheaper ($250 vs 400) than the 15k's. The server will be used as a database server (SQL or MySQL for Win). Right now all 350MB is in Access97 .

[ussenterprise]

I am a Dell Server Tech.....
So, for 1, I would choose Dell (Is it that obvious)
2: Yes, however, I think all drives will default down to the lowest speed
3: a bit quicker access time...

[edit] some questions for you to consider:
For hot swapping of HD's, you will need some form of controller software. The only thing I know of we have available is Array Manager, so, you will need RAID installed.

What model are you looking at?

[PresterJohn]

i have not touched any dell servers since the early poweredge series...at work we use compaq (hp) and they are rock solid.

1) i like the fact that all server parts are covered during the standard warranty period (3 years free)...this covers replacement of hard drives, power supplies, fans...everything. beyond that, you can buy care services packages.

2) this will very much depend on the vendor. you need to contact them...i don't think compaq allows you to buy the sleds nor do i think you'll be able to use standard scsi drives anyways.

3) since budgeting is a real problem for you, i'd say go with the 10k drives. and take the money saved and put it into more ram.

[Einsamherz]

USSEnt.:

I was looking at 1600SC or 2600. They're about $100 apart and the 2600 would look better in my area .

I understand the drives would default down. I was thinking about buying 15k drives elsewhere and putting them in since it's around the same price as your 10k's. I just didn't know if you included the sled or they were just fillers and i'd have to buy the sleds separate.

As for "a bit quicker", could I really notice a difference with 20 or less users hitting the box at the same time? I had a 9GB Seagate Cheetah 10k die on me last month (which started the server search). I assume it was a heat-related fatality. The last guy built the system himself. I don't really need to say anymore, but it's a "dual" P-III 550/500 (2 DIFFERENT CPUs...¿como dice <<overclocked>>?) This thing is just a ticking timebomb and I want something reliable. I'm heard rumors of the A/C being off over the weekends too. Local temps can be into the 90's, I don't want this thing dying. It's not in any special (cooled) server room, I get the pleasure of listening to the current server in it's death throws and the fans sucking in ambient dust. (lucky me )

More questions:

-I'm planning on upgrading the hubs (I'm laughing too) to a switch or two. Would hooking the new server (with 1Gb LAN) to a switch with 1 Gb port improve performance over just a 10/100 port? I'll have no other machines with 1Gb capacity.

-I plan to set the drives up (1-system drive, 2-app drives mirrored) would I need dual-channel SCSI? I'm a bit fuzzy on SCSI.

-Do next week's deals look any better than this week's?

Thanks, (even if you are a bit biased )

[tarpat1]

We use the 2650's at my job and they are wonderful. We have the rackmount model so your mileage may differ. However quality wise they are excellent and seem to be working fine. The SysAdmin who manages them says he hasnt had a problem with them since we got them.

[Siliconjunkie]

I would go with Compaq/HP. As PresterJohn said they are rock solid and are the market leader for a reason.

If you want to put your drives in the hot swap trays they will have to be SCA to go into Compaq trays. Which means that your internal drives wont work (in any system I belive, Compaq for sure) The SCA interface is part of what makes them hot-swapable.
Most servers do have regular SCSI controllers as well so you can still hook them to it if there is somewhere to mount them or you have an external cabinet.

Hot-swap is great IF:
1)You have it in RAID 5 or 0+1
2)Have spare drives around or can get one quickly. Or a hot spare.

Without those 2 it is not needed.

For a small SQL database like that you should be ok with a modest dual P4 or Xeon. 1gb of memory 512 if in a budget pinch since you can add more later.

Do you want rack mount or tower?
For tower I would say: http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/s...330/index.html
For rack-mount:
http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/s...380/index.html

From your description tower better suits your needs. But there arent alot of options in tower w/hot swap.

[ussenterprise]

If you're looking for the hot swap feature, I don't know of any management software that supports straight SCSI.....
As far as RAID is concerned, that is possible to setup ID 0 as RAID 0, and ID's 1 and 2 as RAID 1.

(being in support, I don't have access to deals.....(D'oh))

And, we also have switches. That may be a route to go as well....

[edit] Either the 1600 or the 2600 will work. I would consider the RAID cards (LSI)

[implexant]

Originally posted by Siliconjunkie
I would go with Compaq/HP. As PresterJohn said they are rock solid and are the market leader for a reason.

If you want to put your drives in the hot swap trays they will have to be SCA to go into Compaq trays. Which means that your internal drives wont work (in any system I belive, Compaq for sure) The SCA interface is part of what makes them hot-swapable.
Most servers do have regular SCSI controllers as well so you can still hook them to it if there is somewhere to mount them or you have an external cabinet.

Hot-swap is great IF:
1)You have it in RAID 5 or 0+1
2)Have spare drives around or can get one quickly. Or a hot spare.

Without those 2 it is not needed.

For a small SQL database like that you should be ok with a modest dual P4 or Xeon. 1gb of memory 512 if in a budget pinch since you can add more later.

Do you want rack mount or tower?
For tower I would say: http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/s...330/index.html
For rack-mount:
http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/s...380/index.html

From your description tower better suits your needs. But there arent alot of options in tower w/hot swap.

that is incorrect that they are the mark leaders. more people are moving to Dell than you could ever imagine.

Also, since you work for HP, your opinions are slightly biased. Not that thats bad, but just keep that in mind.

I would say that Dell puts out a better product than HP. However, IBM makes a good enterprise level server. Since your only serving around 20 users, a Dell will be more than good.

The 2600 has hot swap options and would suite you well. I personally have experience working with the 600SCs and 2600 models. Couldn't be more pleased.

Not that HP/Compaq is bad, but I just think that Dell makes a better product for the small/med biz sector.

-Chris

[cbuddha42]

well i figure you have enough on the little dell vs. hp thing here but to answer another question - yes 1gb connection server-switch would help becuse it means you can have 10 people using their 100 and now slowdown network wise becuse all those 100s dont go into 1 100. now that may not make any difference - it depends if your server can handle more than the request that can be made over 100 or not

[Siliconjunkie]

Yes, I am biased since I do work for them. But, I will say that I literally deal with thousands of these boxes every day and hardware problems are few and far between. I have no problems at all reccomending our servers. I think they are the best on the market.

On the other hand, I have no problems steering someone towards Dell for desktops. I simply think they make a better desktop.

But, without people liking different brands we wouldnt have competition and things wouldnt get better, so its all good.


And on gigabit, IF your clients will be asking for more than 100 out of it, there will be an advantage. If they dont generate that much traffic then their wont be any gain. Most will come with a gigabit NIC, watch your traffic and decide if more bandwidth is needed. If it is you just have to upgrade the switch.