Electrical Gurus - Page 2

Richard Cranium · 04-12-2003, 11:41 AM

If the screws are loose, this will cause heating on any heavy draw appliance..

Especially Hot Water heaters, Freezers and Refrigerators.

Wizzard~Of~Ozz · 04-12-2003, 11:48 AM

My first guess would be you have a problem with an element, Most hot water heaters use 220v, to get this it uses a tandum breaker, (2 breakers joined) if one side has a problem it will cause it to become un-balanced meaning there is feedback on one side. If the waterheater is underwarranty, ask them to check it as it's tripping a breaker repeatedly. If it's not under warranty, then I'ld get someone in to check it.

I am assuming it's only a 2 conductor wire going to the tank.

Sorry, I can't explain it in real simple terms, Perhaps someone got a good example in school that they can explain with.

Xtreeme · 04-12-2003, 01:37 PM

Dont think it cant be the box though either. My bro just had a incident. I warned him 1000 times about his main breaker at his new house. It would flip when watching tv and stuff in living room or running dryer. Pretty much random all over the house it would trip. Sometimes a heavy load sometimes not. So (4 years residential wiring in school-no expert though) I go wandering into the dark basement. Hehe. There it is. A HALF melted 100amp breaker. He left it go of course and as such finally went into small flames. Luckily he towled it out (swatting it with towl). So I changed it. OK so far but still warm. Problem is two fold in his case. #1 100amp breaker isnt enuff and neither is the box its in. He needs more of 150-200amp service. Gotta call Power co. #2 the bottem tang in box for main breaker is now corroded severly. To were sanding isnt gonna help. Its not flipping now but slightly warm. Next week were gutting the walls. And starting at the box all new. Old houses are a pain. BUT look at that box too I say.

Xtreeme · 04-12-2003, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wizzard~Of~Ozz
My first guess would be you have a problem with an element, Most hot water heaters use 220v, to get this it uses a tandum breaker, (2 breakers joined) if one side has a problem it will cause it to become un-balanced meaning there is feedback on one side. If the waterheater is underwarranty, ask them to check it as it's tripping a breaker repeatedly. If it's not under warranty, then I'ld get someone in to check it.

I am assuming it's only a 2 conductor wire going to the tank.

Sorry, I can't explain it in real simple terms, Perhaps someone got a good example in school that they can explain with.

I know what you mean. Its called a "unbalanced load" and it also effects your light bill and the entire power feed from box aswell as cause heat. Very bad it is to have unbalanced load. Its when more power comes from one "branch" of the box than the other. Each breaker (single) is a branch. Our commen house boxes have two branches. One tang is a branch in box. Notice how they are like fingers interweaving. THis is for the "dual breakers". You can also use two singles side by side. Done it a million times myself. The thing is since its dual breaker he said that means 220v bioth branches and balanced there. BUT the rest of his load may not be. Make sure you have the same # of breakers on each branch. BUt more importantly work out the draw of each breaker. Like this.
branch #1 has 30amp 20 amp and 15amp breakers. Total load is 65amp now.
Branch #2 should be as clsoe to that aswell. Like 15amp, 15amp 20 and 15amp. See what I mean? So go and write down the amps of all your devices. Figure out hal fof it per branch. And rearange to balance the load at box. Your light bill will thank you!

youngqd · 04-13-2003, 08:00 AM

Balancing the load on circuits makes sense.

I had a remodeled home with 95% of the outlets & fixtures on one circuit. I found out when I had a minor fire in a ceiling light.

Less noise also. I like seperate circuits for computer stuff & audio electronics.

Cruez · 04-13-2003, 10:21 AM

I put 42 circuits in my house... I believe its a 200 amp service also..

I checked the breaker later that day and it seems to be ok now..

One of the connections must not have been making good contact...

The water heater has a lifetime warranty on everything. It also monitors itself and none of the lights were showing a fault...

I guess its fixed now

Xtreeme · 04-14-2003, 02:36 PM

"I put 42 circuits in my house... I believe its a 200 amp service also.."

WoW! Well if you have 42 circuits you got 42 breakers. LOL In a 200amp box -no way. Its either more amp than you think ofr less circuits. Cause even if they were all little 10amp breakers that would be 420amps of breakers on a 200amp main. Wouldnt make sense as it would be flipping 200amp ff everytime you used more than that amount of service. Unless you got 80% of you circuits not being used at a time. THen it would be OK> But still 42 breakers why? I got a 250amp box. 200amp main breaker. Im useing 12 breakers and that includes my 220v arc weilder-220v dual piston 80gal air compresor (both 50amp). I only use one at a time so they share same main but individual ones at garage. Electric stove-washer dryer and rest of house. Doesnt really matter dont get me wrong. Im just wondering why so many circuits. THats gotta be a wiring ratts nest LOL. I feel bad for ya-and your light bill-hehe.

Cruez · 04-14-2003, 02:41 PM

ummm. I'm pretty sure thats what it is...I'll have to double check..

but I have about 10 half sized breakers in that bunch also..

Each room has separate circuits for outlets and lighting..

along with separate ones for fridge, microwave, computers,heated floor, whirlpool, alarm....etc..

I can count em again, I am guessing that its pretty close to 42..

Also, there are a couple that are not fully wired in at the moment.. (additional lights, disposal, central vacuum.....

dunbar · 04-14-2003, 02:50 PM

xtreeme - that is not how power panel loads are calculated. I built my house, my wife and I wired it and everything, and I was there when the utility company put the transformer onto the power pole in my yard, which transformer feeds only my one house. I noticed it was a 15 kVA transformer, and told them that didn't make a lot of sense for 200 Amp service, which would be 48kVA, not 15 kVA. They told me that I would not likely run everything on my house all at once, thus the 15kVA would be adequate. 24 years later, it still works fine, the utility company was right - I do not run 200 amps all at once.

As for the heater causing only one side of the circuit breaker to get hot.... to me, that means the breaker for the heater (and should be only the heater on that breaker) is seeing heavy load on one side, and much less load on the other side. Water heaters are needing 240 volts which means ideally no current flowing in the neutral, right? Which tells me there is a current flowing through neutral somewhere. Or possibly that one screw was less than tight. I hope it was the screw part and not the load part.

Xtreeme · 04-14-2003, 06:05 PM

dunbar

I know you dont use all of it at one time generally. But you still have to account for max useage. Your transformer (about what 100amp at one time max load?) wouldnt work for me. As I use my weilder (50 amp 220v) and have cloths dryer and stove going PLUS lights in the house/pc/water heater-yeah its all used at one time-sometimes. . If your transformer cant supply 100amp at one time it would be a prob for me. Point taken though. (by the way I wired my house too)