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Old 09-15-2002, 11:14 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Hey guys........ I downloaded the gentoo boot disk thing..... and anyway..... I'm not much for command line stuff......... (got to the partition part and after I stopped beating my head on the floor I gave up ) ......... I have installed Mandrake 8.1 back on the 3 gig drive and downloading D2OL client now to see if I can get it to work on Mandrake 8.1 on this machine..... if not... I also downloaded Peanut Linux large.iso file.........may try it..............

I still have the gentoo iso ............ so If i get another small hard drive to play with.......... I will try again...... looks interesting if I could get past the command line stuff......... (it WAS late and I WAS tired )

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Old 09-15-2002, 11:27 AM   #52 (permalink)
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hey crouse

before you embark on a gentoo install

a) print their x86 guide

b) have a 2nd pc internet enabled so you can follow online

- yes you can ALT + F2/3 (etc) to get supplementary consoles to display the same info while working off the main console for install, but guess which way is easier

don't fulfil the prophecies - I'm more n00b than you and I did it (will do it again soon as well )

btw jkrohn - now you're all partied out, what's up with your finetuning?
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Old 09-15-2002, 04:30 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Well Gentoo is probably going to get formatted off very soon and here is why:

Everything is working great for me.
Load up XMMS and the sound is quiet. Load up my mixer and try to adjust volume, nothing happens. Ogain is the only thing that adjusts the volume and it doesn't go loud enough to suit my tastes. (ie somethign is br0ke)

Now is this a problem that probably be eaisly solved? Yes with some searching, but it brought me to a conclusion about emerge.

While this system allows for ultimate customization from an install standpoint, you can't compile everything you want how you want and you have to follow thier rules, not the rules from INSTALL (ie with alsa).

I mean I want to be alse to manually download and compile ALSA using ./configure && make && make install with the flags I WANT in that specific instance. Not having to set some flags in make.default or whatever the file was


Also using rc-update to load things is ludacris for this type of distro IMO. I want to edit files. Plain and simple, for me this puts me in control. Not at the mercy of rc-update The fact that it is reccomended to NOT edit something like modules.autoload and to use rc-update I dont like. I understand why, I just don't like it.

So in conclusion. Emerge is a GREAT system. It resolves dependencies awesome. It installs things awesome, and things run very fast.

It just doesn't allow the control I want I guess.

Jkrohn
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Old 09-15-2002, 04:44 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jkrohn
While this system allows for ultimate customization from an install standpoint, you can't compile everything you want how you want and you have to follow thier rules, not the rules from INSTALL (ie with alsa).
Check out the --inject switch for emerge. eg. if you run emerge --inject alsa-driver... it doesnt install it, just makes portage thinks you have, so you can compile it how you want. Is this what you are talking about?
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Old 09-15-2002, 05:04 PM   #55 (permalink)
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well yes and no.

Say i want to install any program to any given directory using a --prefix flag. (say something important tha tprograms rely on)

Will emerge still handle my dependencies correctly?

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Old 09-15-2002, 05:21 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Hmm.. I was just considering trying this distro too. Can some answer a few questions about it?

I got into Slackware because I wanted to learn Linux plain and simple. Didn't want to learn to use the RPM or SuSE's special yast tools (although I stil think SuSE is tops for a desktop distro). If I begin to play with Gentoo am I going to learn about the nuts and bolts of Linux by building it myself or am I going to learn Gentoo?

There's no mention of standards at all @ the Gentoo site. All they keep talking about is customization. Is this just some highly optimized version of RedHat with different tools? I'd like to stay as UnixCentric (is that a word) as possible.

I could ramble on an on here but all I want to know is this: After Slack what' the next step? I'm no expert - not by a long shot - but Slackware foreced me (and still forces me) to learn Linux becuase it won't do anything for me. I've been told I should try Debian since it's standards based and the documentation is really good. Guess I'll just go ahead and ask - what do you guy think?

Hope things go well for you Jkrohn. I've gotten quite a bit from your thread here and I didn't even have to install anything..
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Old 09-15-2002, 05:23 PM   #57 (permalink)
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It might if you compile the packages that depend on it manually (--inject) as well... But you would have to do this on any system where you are compiling for non-default --prefix's.

Why would you want to put them in a different place anyway....? I mean, emerge --inject should be able to work with anything other than putting the binaries in a different place. It might work anyway (environment variables...maybe?). Sounds like you're really looking hard for something wrong with it.
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Old 09-15-2002, 06:45 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Kram:
Quote:
Sounds like you're really looking hard for something wrong with it.
No, I'm looking for any reason to keep it and not finding any
Like I said above, I like the distro, it just is not my favorite.

1) Despite all the functionality, its package management system has limitations like all the rest (package systems), and like all the rest I can do without them Going and finding packages/dependencies is just fine by me.

2) Still don't care for V init style scripts either, which gentoo employs. While this is a persoanl bias, it's my system

Also the sound is not the only problem. There were a couple more glitches (ie startx did nothing while xinit worked fine) that I ran into and fixed which leads me to another beef

3) Not enough docs exist. Period. And this is just a direct result of lower usage. Do a google search on any gentoo specific problem and the results leave some to be desired. Note this is not a problem with the distro, but a good doc base to search is something I look for. One positive note, the gentoo forums looked good from what I saw, but the gentoo chats are absolutely worthless.

4) One of my biggest beefs is that I did more than a few things that didn't "stick" after a reboot because I didn't do them the "gentoo" way (ie run their commands to finalize, which while not theoreticaly necessary, is for gentoo). While I guess using any distro of *nix comes with its "learn it my way", gentoo offers me no incentive to "learn it their way".

Gentoo does many good things, just not enough to get me to switch.

Scott:
What you will learn is all during the install process if you go from stage 1. It just teaches you the basics of building a linux system with some automation. If you really are interested in this just grab LFS and build the system. You will learn more and end up with the same bare system.

Once you get it installed you are faced with a bare system esentially.

It is now your responsibility to install EVERYTHING you need.
Now IMO you don't learn too much since simply typing emerge kde installs KDE and everything else that it needs to run. While this is not the most efficient way, it is very possible, so you aren't forced to learn anything really. Just that you have to install KDE and some dependencies before it runs.

Note this is also a pain in the ass It takes forever and there are always things that you forget/overlook from the "premade" distros.

Once completely installed as far as configuring the system and services you learn nothing more, and IMO less, than slack, unless you've never seen V init style scripts before, then of course you learn those, though you are discouraged from editing them by hand and instead to use commands like:
rc-update add alsa boot
to run that module at boot instead of just opening modules.autoload and adding it yourself.

But that's another story

Gentoo is a great distro.
*It has a brand new look at runlevels which I like, though don't find all that useful.
*Its package system is top notch and right up there with apt.
*It is fast. Undeniably fast in a GUI environment.
*and of course every other advantage of linux

Just not my favorite I guess.

Jkrohn

Wow I typed way too D@#$ much
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Old 09-15-2002, 11:08 PM   #59 (permalink)
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LOL jkrohn.......

I tend to get carried away typing sometimes myself........

Update to all that are interested.....

My aptiva box went from (3 gig swapable drive) Mandrake 8.1..... to Gentoo........ (to much CL for me I guess).....to Peanut Linux (again to much CL to suit me)........ to Mandrake 8.1 (wouldn't run D2OL client) to Mandrake 8.2 ........ running D2OL client now........ RUNNING work units as I type .....(CROUSE_3 Node#10440) ....... I have on my little 3 gig swapable drive about 7 window managers.. KDE GNOME BLACKBOX ICEWM and several more............ Guess I'm a mandrake fan...... but I don't mind trying others...... Someday I might get the hang of that command line stuff..........just not there yet...... guess I'm losing patience in my old age ......... (not really that old.....lol) ..... anyway...that's the status of my little 3 gig swapable drive on my IBM Aptiva........ a whopping 233 mhz with about 192mb or so of ram... Will let it crunch D2ol running linux......... and with blackbox..... it's pretty snappy
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Old 09-16-2002, 01:11 AM   #60 (permalink)
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I think for someone who has already mastered CL in linux, then jkrohn is probably right about his frustrations

gentoo probably belongs after redhat and mandrake on the learning curve for a windows user something like:

1. windows
2. lycoris/redmond
3. suse/mandrake
4. redhat
5. gentoo
6. debian/slack
7. LFS (linux from scratch)
8. linux contributor
9. write yer own os

I'm sure others will disagree, but this is just IMO based on my experiences - I haven't followed this sequence in order, rather I have jumped backwards and forwards all over it (not including 7,8 & 9 )

right now for what I know (and have time for) gentoo feels comfortable

Jkrohn sorry that you didn't find what you wanted, but now you know what it is and how it works

I think I will keep my 1.4 beta and redo my system once gentoo 1.4 gets past the rc stages

slack has been on my system before and probably will be again I hope

thanks for the updates and for reminding us that we have choices whether we want to work on windows or write our own os


Last edited by the jester : 09-16-2002 at 01:14 AM.
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