»
 

Go Back   ResellerRatings Store Ratings > ResellerRatings Forums > Off Topic Community

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-31-2003, 03:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
slinky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: cali
Posts: 769
slinky is on a distinguished road
At Home The Truth Uncovered?

Quote:
October 24, 2003
Rockets, Napalm, Torpedoes & Lies
Israel's Attack on the Liberty, Revisited

by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR

[This is an excerpt from CounterPunch's hot new book, The Politics of Anti-Semitism, just released by AK Press.]

In early June of 1967, at the onset of the Six Day War, the Pentagon sent the USS Liberty from Spain into international waters off the coast of Gaza to monitor the progress of Israel's attack on the Arab states. The Liberty was a lightly armed surveillance ship.

Only hours after the Liberty arrived it was spotted by the Israeli military. The IDF sent out reconnaissance planes to identify the ship. They made eight trips over a period of three hours. The Liberty was flying a large US flag and was easily recognizable as an American vessel.

A few hours later more planes came. These were Israeli Mirage III fighters, armed with rockets and machine guns. As off-duty officers sunbathed on the deck, the fighters opened fire on the defenseless ship with rockets and machine guns.

A few minutes later a second wave of planes streaked overhead, French-built Mystere jets, which not only pelted the ship with gunfire but also with napalm bomblets, coating the deck with the flaming jelly. By now, the Liberty was on fire and dozens were wounded and killed, excluding several of the ship's top officers.

The Liberty's radio team tried to issue a distress call, but discovered the frequencies had been jammed by the Israeli planes with what one communications specialist called "a buzzsaw sound." Finally, an open channel was found and the Liberty got out a message it was under attack to the USS America, the Sixth Fleet's large aircraft carrier.

Two F-4s left the carrier to come to the Liberty's aid. Apparently, the jets were armed only with nuclear weapons. When word reached the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara became irate and ordered the jets to return. "Tell the Sixth Fleet to get those aircraft back immediately," he barked. McNamara's injunction was reiterated in saltier terms by Admiral David L. McDonald, the chief of Naval Operations: "You get those f***ing airplanes back on deck, and you get them back down." The planes turned around. And the attack on the Liberty continued.

After the Israeli fighter jets had emptied their arsenal of rockets, three Israeli attack boats approached the Liberty. Two torpedoes were launched at the crippled ship, one tore a 40-foot wide hole in the hull, flooding the lower compartments, and killing more than a dozen American sailors.

As the Liberty listed in the choppy seas, its deck aflame, crew members dropped life rafts into the water and prepared to scuttle the ship. Given the number of wounded, this was going to be a dangerous operation. But it soon proved impossible, as the Israeli attack boats strafed the rafts with machine gun fire. No body was going to get out alive that way.

After more than two hours of unremitting assault, the Israelis finally halted their attack. One of the torpedo boats approached the Liberty. An officer asked in English over a bullhorn: "Do you need any help?"

The wounded commander of the Liberty, Lt. William McGonagle, instructed the quartermaster to respond emphatically: "*******."

The Israeli boat turned and left.

A Soviet destroyer responded before the US Navy, even though a US submarine, on a covert mission, was apparently in the area and had monitored the attack. The Soviet ship reached the Liberty six hours before the USS Davis. The captain of the Soviet ship offered his aid, but the Liberty's conning officer refused.

Finally, 16 hours after the attack two US destroyers reached the Liberty. By that time, 34 US sailors were dead and 174 injured, many seriously. As the wounded were being evacuated, an officer with the Office of Naval Intelligence instructed the men not to talk about their ordeal with the press.

The following morning Israel launched a surprise invasion of Syria, breaching the new cease-fire agreement and seizing control of the Golan Heights.

Within three weeks, the Navy put out a 700-page report, exonerating the Israelis, claiming the attack had been accidental and that the Israelis had pulled back as soon as they realized their mistake. Defense Secretary Robert McNamara suggested the whole affair should be forgotten. "These errors do occur," McNamara concluded.


Profanity is not permitted. Please be more careful to edit foul language before posting in the future.

Fingers / TechIMO Moderator


Last edited by slinky; 12-31-2003 at 04:53 PM.
slinky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 04:03 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
pickel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Jackson,MS
Posts: 1,941
pickel is on a distinguished road
I used to feel sorry for Isreal , mostly because when I lived in NYC,
I had many Jewish friends and only heard their side of the argument and personally had met a few survuvors of the German POW camps.But soon faced the reality these people were no more than theives in the night and had virtually stolen all the land they had from the Arabs and continue to take without a second thought. Whatever happens, they brought it on themselves. I think it would take either a firm beleif in your political position or shear hatred to become a suicide bomber.
__________________
Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead
pickel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 04:05 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Creatures's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 3,962
Creatures is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Creatures
now what do you want to say?

why didnt they take the russains help? are they stupid?
and why are the jets armed wtih nuclear weapons?

anyway i will never understand war.

Creatures
__________________
___)
(
____)REATURES
Creatures is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 05:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
slinky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: cali
Posts: 769
slinky is on a distinguished road
cont....

In Assault on the Liberty, a harrowing first-hand account by James Ennes Jr., McNamara's version of events is proven to be as big a sham as his concurrent lies about Vietnam. Ennes's book created a media storm when it was first published by Random House in 1980, including (predictably) charges that Ennes was a liar and an anti-Semite. Still, the book sold more than 40,000 copies, but was eventually allowed to go out of print. Now Ennes has published an updated version, which incorporates much new evidence that the Israeli attack was deliberate and that the US government went to extraordinary lengths to disguise the truth.

It's a story of Israel aggression, Pentagon incompetence, official lies, and a cover-up that persists to this day. The book gains much of its power from the immediacy of Ennes's first-hand account of the attack and the lies that followed.

Now, 35 years later, Ennes warns that the bloodbath on board the Liberty and its aftermath should serve as a tragic cautionary tale about the continuing ties between the US government and the government of Israel.

The Attack on the Liberty is the kind of book that makes your blood seethe. Ennes skillfully documents the life of the average sailor on one of the more peculiar vessels in the US Navy, with an attention for detail that reminds one of Dana or O'Brien. After all, the year was 1967 and most of the men on the Liberty were certainly glad to be on a non-combat ship in the middle of the Mediterranean, rather than in the Gulf of Tonkin or Mekong Delta.

But this isn't Two Years Before the Mast. In fact, Ennes's tour on the Liberty last only a few short weeks. He had scarcely settled into a routine before his new ship was shattered before his eyes.

Ennes joined the Liberty in May of 1967, as an Electronics Material Officer. Serving on a "spook ship", as the Liberty was known to Navy wives, was supposed to be a sure path to career enhancement. The Liberty's normal routine was to ply the African coast, tuning in its eavesdropping equipment on the electronic traffic in the region.

The Liberty had barely reached Africa when it received a flash message from the Joint Chiefs of Staff to sail from the Ivory Coast to the Mediterranean, where it was to re-deploy off the coast of the Sinai to monitor the Israeli attack on Egypt and the allied Arab nations.

As the war intensified, the Liberty sent a request to the fleet headquarters requesting an escort. It was denied by Admiral William Martin. The Liberty moved alone to a position in international waters about 13 miles from the shore at El Arish, then under furious siege by the IDF.

On June 6, the Joint Chiefs sent Admiral McCain, father of the senator from Arizona, an urgent message instructing him to move the Liberty out of the war zone to a position at least 100 miles off the Gaza Coast. McCain never forwarded the message to the ship.

A little after seven in the morning on June 8, Ennes entered the bridge of the Liberty to take the morning watch. Ennes was told that an hour earlier a "flying boxcar" (later identified as a twin-engine Nord 2501 Noratlas) had flown over the ship at a low level.

Ennes says he noticed that the ship's American flag had become stained with soot and ordered a new flag run up the mast. The morning was clear and calm, with a light breeze.

At 9 am, Ennes spotted another reconnaissance plane, which circled the Liberty. An hour later two Israeli fighter jets buzzed the ship. Over the next four hours, Israeli planes flew over the Liberty five more times.

When the first fighter jet struck, a little before two in the afternoon, Ennes was scanning the skies from the starboard side of the bridge, binoculars in his hands. A rocket hit the ship just below where Ennes was standing, the fragments shredded the men closest to him.

After the explosion, Ennes noticed that he was the only man left standing. But he also had been hit by more than 20 shards of shrapnel and the force of the blast had shattered his left leg. As he crawled into the pilothouse, a second fighter jet streaked above them and unleashed its payload on the hobbled Liberty.

At that point, Ennes says the crew of the Liberty had no idea who was attacking them or why. For a few moments, they suspected it might be the Soviets, after an officer mistakenly identified the fighters as MIG-15s. They knew that the Egyptian air force already had been decimated by the Israelis. The idea that the Israelis might be attacking them didn't occur to them until one of the crew spotted a Star of David on the wing of one of the French-built Mystere jets.

Ennes was finally taken below deck to a makeshift dressing station, with other wounded men. It was hardly a safe harbor. As Ennes worried that his fractured leg might slice through his femoral artery leaving him to bleed to death, the Liberty was pummeled by rockets, machine-gun fire and an Italian-made torpedo packed with 1,000-pounds of explosive.

After the attack ended, Ennes was approached by his friend Pat O'Malley, a junior officer, who had just sent a list of killed and wounded to the Bureau of Naval Personnel. He got an immediate message back. "They said, 'Wounded in what action? Killed in what action?'," O'Malley told Ennes. "They said it wasn't an 'action,' it was an accident. I'd like for them to come out here and see the difference between an action and an accident. Stupid b**tards."

The cover-up had begun.

***

The Pentagon lied to the public about the attack on the Liberty from the very beginning. In a decision personally approved by the loathsome McNamara, the Pentagon denied to the press that the Liberty was an intelligence ship, referring to it instead as a Technical Research ship, as if it were little more than a military version of Jacques Cousteau's Calypso.

The military press corps on the USS America, where most of the wounded sailors had been taken, were placed under extreme restrictions. All of the stories filed from the carrier were first routed through the Pentagon for security clearance, objectionable material was removed with barely a bleat of protest from the reporters or their publications.

Predictably, Israel's first response was to blame the victim, a tactic that has served them so well in the Palestinian situation. First, the IDF alleged that it had asked the State Department and the Pentagon to identify any US ships in the area and was told that there were none. Then the Israeli government charged that the Liberty failed to fly its flag and didn't respond to calls for it to identify itself. The Israelis contended that they assumed the Liberty was an Egyptian supply ship called El Quseir, which, even though it was a rusting transport ship then docked in Alexandria, the IDF said it suspected of shelling Israeli troops from the sea. Under these circumstances, the Israeli's said they were justified in opening fire on the Liberty. The Israelis said that they halted the attack almost immediately, when they realized their mistake.

"The Liberty contributed decisively toward its identification as an enemy ship," the IDF report concluded. This was a blatant falsehood, since the Israelis had identified the Liberty at least six hours prior to the attack on the ship.

Even though the Pentagon knew better, it gave credence to the Israeli account by saying that perhaps the Liberty's flag had lain limp on the flagpole in a windless sea. The Pentagon also suggested that the attack might have lasted less than 20 minutes.

After the initial battery of misinformation, the Pentagon imposed a news blackout on the Liberty disaster until after the completion of a Court of Inquiry investigation.

The inquiry was headed by Rear Admiral Isaac C. Kidd. Kidd didn't have a free hand. He'd been instructed by Vice-Admiral McCain to limit the damage to the Pentagon and to protect the reputation of Israel.

The Kidd interviewed the crew on June 14 and 15. The questioning was extremely circumscribed. According to Ennes, the investigators "asked nothing that might be embarrassing to Israeland testimony that tended to embarrass Israel was covered with a 'Top Secret' label, if it was accepted at all."

Ennes notes that even testimony by the Liberty's communications officers about the jamming of the ship's radios was classified as "Top Secret." The reason? It proved that Israel knew it was attacking an American ship. "Here was strong evidence that the attack was planned in advance and that our ship's identity was known to the attackers (for it its practically impossible to jam the radio of a stranger), but this information was hushed up and no conclusions were drawn from it," Ennes writes.

Similarly, the Court of Inquiry deep-sixed testimony and affidavits regarding the flag-Ennes had ordered a crisp new one deployed early on the morning of the attack. The investigators buried intercepts of conversations between IDF pilots identifying the ship as flying an American flag.

It also refused to accept evidence about the IDF's use of napalm during the attacks and choose not to hear testimony regarding the duration of the attacks and the fact that the US Navy failed to send planes to defend the ship.
more.rtf
slinky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 09:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Toadman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 820
Toadman is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Toadman
Interesting.
This too
Very interesting. Wasn't it a topic on the Discovery Channel?

Being an intel vessel, orbited for positive ID numerous times, I'd say it was deliberate to blackout the West's eyes during the inital Israeli attacks.

This part is sensationalistic fluff:
No Battle Group Admiral would launch-commit two F-4's ordinanced with nuclear gravity bombs(that's all we had then) on a defensive mission over water, let alone without National Command Authority.
Toadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 10:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,533
John Prophet is on a distinguished road
(hmm, should I venture out on these waters or not)

I will give a little insight into the Jewish/Isreali..or more accurately perhaps for my reasoning, "Hebrew" people.

It's not necessarily "military" centric but it concerns that as well.

I will try to be as breif as possible.

The Hebrew people were selected by God to show His nature etc on Earth....they were a persecuted people for that reason because, obviously, the other nations had and have no desire to worship God, lol.....of course in the due course of time God sent them their "messiah"...their annointed king who was to save them and lead them etc. Well, unfortunately by that time, when God sent the Messiah...Jesus...the Jews were so compromised and "un Godly" that they didnt recognize Jesus as such...and they had him killed.

Well, of course right after that, within 50 years or so of Jesus crucifixion, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans and the Jews were scattered and dispersed....just as the prophets had said they would be..and all thru history they stayed that way....of course being persecuted etc..and in our lifetime of course the "holocaust"..and then their return to the "promised land" and their being a state again etc.

Ok, enuff for the history part...here is the insight part....if you check this out you will get a pretty good idea of the goings on that have occured and will occur.

The Jews are STILL Gods chosen people...no doubt...still selected by Him to show His wisdom etc to the nations of the world...that WILL NOT change. And they were indeed prophesied to return to the Holy Land...as happened in 1948. So of course even atheists/historians/agnostics etc all have heard Christians and others talking about how them "coming home" was a sign of the end of times etc etc. Well it is in a way.

The only issue is....at this point they STILL HAVE NOT recognized Jesus...in fact they totally reject Him (and hence, God) and all things "Christian". As a matter of fact they blame Christians for the holocaust because they feel that "Hitler was a Christian"...why do they think that???...cuz Germany was a protestant nation, lol. And Germany was the home of Luther etc. Besides that, most Jews only really recognize 3 worldgroups etc.... "Jews, Christians, Muslims"..so they lump Hitler in with the Christians. Hence they hate and abhor the name "Jesus Christ".

So that brings us to now.....they are they chosen people, but, they arent at all in the will of God...because they have rejected Gods own Son, thus rejecting God himself. Jesus was the perfect representation of God on Earth..but the jews by that time had gotten used to doing things their own way....all the time thinking they were serving God...doing it their own way so much so that they missed/didnt recognize God's Son...He didnt meet their preconceived notions.


So when you try to look at Isreal today...and stuff like the article there about the 6day war etc....you need this insight. They are Gods chosen people but they ARE NOT at all doing things Gods way....they are in a temporarily rejected state..not totally rejected, because that CANT happen...they are just "grafted out" of their own tree for the time being while we "gentiles" were grafter in.

The Jews right now...if you take a little time and think about it....are pretty much the epitome of what mankind can produce....as far as man himself APART from God....they are pretty much smarter and better than the rest of us, lol. And they have absolutely SHAPED the modern world we live in. Absolutely. Dont think so??? Think again. Just run a few names of those who have shaped our Western and modern thoughts. Marx, Freud,Einstein.....all jews, usually German Jews, lol. (or look at a list of Nobel peace prize winners, lol)

So you have the Jews shaping mankind APART from the influence of God. See, they STILL have their giftedness and their "call" to be world leaders and shapers.....but it's perverted because they have rejected God...even though they themselves dont even realize it. In rejecting God yet still retaining their gifts and calling they have produced lots of "alternatives" to God's way. God's ONE way. They have produced Marxism, communism, (whereas God's way is a "theocracy").....relativity (whereas God is ABSOLUTE) etc etc. (along the way also some insignificant things like the atomic bomb).....whether you believe it or see it or not....all those things are doomed because they are only man's way of living in a rejected state...man's way, shaped by the Jew's present "fallenness", of doing things his own way. (The clay jar telling the potter how it should be shaped)


So if you want to have ANY HOPE of trying to understand the most enigmatic, controversial people of all time...you have to see that whole backdrop. And, I hate to do it but I must at least mention it......you HAVE to realize that while God has a plan and way to shape things...He has opposition in the spirit realm....hehe...which opposition is currently shaping things it's way...with predictable results. ( I wont mention the devil cuz I dont wanna insult anyone..shhhh)

So this-----> "I used to feel sorry for Isreal , mostly because when I lived in NYC,
I had many Jewish friends and only heard their side of the argument and personally had met a few survuvors of the German POW camps.But soon faced the reality these people were no more than theives in the night and had virtually stolen all the land they had from the Arabs and continue to take without a second thought. Whatever happens, they brought it on themselves." -----------is exactly right in a way.......in all their striving and such to rise to greatness and really to even keep existing, they have turned into the epitome of what man can do and achieve apart from God....they have become farrrrrrrr removed from Gods ideal.....they have resorted to, just like Pickel said, they have resorted to the same tactics that have been used ON THEM. So basically they have totally lost all their distinctive of being "Gods people".....so while the whole world still hears that term.."Gods people" etc.....to the eye, the term DOESNT FIT....and youre right, to the eye it doesnt. And it WILL get worse! Even this thing with that wall they are building....thats a pathetic invention from the mind of man...not God.

And to give credit and clarity to some of the detractors who say things like "if they are Gods people, i dont want anything to do with God"...well, you are right in a way, because in their present state, the Jews represent a total hypocrisy and a total OPPOSITE of anything Godly....they are Godly in name and distant tradition only.

BUT........God aint finished yet.

Here is what I believe and understand to be ahead in the future. The Jews WILL....and I dont say this lightly...they will AGAIN go into a time of persecution...FAR greater than what happened in Nazi Germany....that was only in Europe....this coming one will be Worldwide....BIG difference. They will be on the run and dispersed again to every nook and cranny in the world. Their present state of being "returned home" wont last......it has been allowed by God only to focus attention on them again...but it was a MAN MADE thing...HUMAN engineered....when they are dispersed again..they WILL RETURN once more to their homeland...BUT..this time it will be by the hand of GOD ALONE....it will be UNMISTAKEABLE....because they will be in such a tragic and hopeless condition that it will be wayyyyyyyyyyy beyond anything humanly possible for them to survive and return..it will HAVE to be by Divine Intervention.

So right now they are in that strange state of being chosen, yet temporarily rejected.......the strange state of being called "Gods people" yet visibly they are acting TOTALLY contrary to what anyone would think of as "Godly"...so they are the ultimate enigma...unless you already know where it is all headed....(which I just told you, lol)....with that understanding, what the future holds..and it WILL be graphic....wont be so much of a surprise.

again...set this thread aside and look at it in the coming months etc...this aint the kind of thing you can glance at and come to a conclusion about in one quick scanning.



Sorry sorry sorry this got so long...I really tried to keep it short, lol....but there is no possible way to make it any shorter....it's too meaty an important of a subject.

I hope no one will consider this threadjacking or OT posting....cuz to me it fits perfectly....it gives vital insight into why things such as "the liberty" happen.

Happy New Year, JP

And for those who want some "homework" lol...read Matthew 25:31 to end...when the Jews are scattered again...they will be scattered for their own "sifting" but also the sifting if the nations....the Jews, on the run, despised, hated etc...will be "the least of these" as mentioned in that parable. So be careful how you treat em, lol.
__________________
"Even a fool is thought to be wise if he is silent"

Last edited by John Prophet; 12-31-2003 at 11:44 PM.
John Prophet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 10:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,533
John Prophet is on a distinguished road
Wow, didnt realize it was THAT long..till I looked back....but if you think its long on your screen..you oughtta see it on MINE....19"@800/600. (cut me a break though, I didnt post for 2 whole weeks)

JP
__________________
"Even a fool is thought to be wise if he is silent"
John Prophet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 01:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Prexaspes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,737
Prexaspes is on a distinguished road
I'd like to see them try that again.
Prexaspes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 11:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,533
John Prophet is on a distinguished road
"I'd like to see them try that again."

Well, we do have to admit that, just as it took us years to find out about this 1967 occurance...we are similarly in the dark about the real goings-on now. Basically we believe what the networks tell us..so its a matter of who pulls their strings.....though its sort of a low budget film..the film called something like "Megiddo. Omega Code 2" (something like that, lol..with Michael York, Michael Bien) shows a scenario which is probably fairly true to life as far as media control.

But to answer your statement about them trying it again....it does make me muse quite a bit...along these lines.

America was at least FOUNDED as a "Christian" nation...even though that part of our history is pretty much being written out of the books....but due to the Christian beliefs of our forefathers etc..we have always supported Israel because we knew "they are Gods people"...but as America has drifted slowly and now speedily away from any semblance of reverence for God...especially in our govt....I wonder how long that feeling of being "tied" to Israel will last.

We have lots of strange bedfellows that, due to our ravenous consumption of oil, we can not seemingly live without...the issue being that those countries are irreversibly bent on Israels destruction, lol....so we are in an increasingly hard position...trying to somehow achieve opposite goals....staying "loyal" to israel and on the other hand..feeding our voluptous effete lifestyles thru oil from countries who utterly despise Isreal.....at some point there must come a visible choice between the two and with Israel ( and us) losing more and more of her "Godly" distinctive...I have a bad feeling we will choose the strange bedfellows over her, lol.
We will find ourselves on the wrong side of Mtt 25.

Could it possibly even be that recent events in Iraq and even Libya have put us a little farther over into that "other side" of the coin...the side opposite of Israel.

JP
__________________
"Even a fool is thought to be wise if he is silent"

Last edited by John Prophet; 01-01-2004 at 11:46 AM.
John Prophet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Most Active Discussions

Recent Discussions

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:19 AM.