How's the Euro going then?

[DutchMaster]

Have you seen TV TOTAL w/Stephen Raab? I think the praise he uses is "Holland ist nicht dabei" -> "Holland is not in" now this is in humor but it has become common place.

I don't watch that much RTL but I know the guy. I guess we earned it. We always think we will win the cup, we and the players are overconfident and therefor lost the game. We lost against the Irish last year which should be won easely. Well griobhta knows all about it
I am not that big football (soccer) enthousiast so it doesn't worry me.

[DutchMaster]

BTW having a country next door where you can go "SMOKE" and have a "CUP of COFFEE" certianly would keep me happy to hold up good relation.

Owh that's why those Germans are so friendly to me

[Graham]

I must say I can see ryogenetic's point, Europe has shown for centuries that it has many factions. Take Yugoslavia, the various ethnic groups held together in a tense relationsip by Tito, and look what happened after his death.
The union of the states that now constitutes the USA was a very bloody affair, and the ideas, beliefs, and ideals were nowhere near as diparate as those in Europe. Evidently in the case of the US the struggle was worth it, the US is now the undisputed world leader in many fields, but that is no guarantee of similar good luck here.
As I said previously, I am very much in favour of strong links with Europe and I am, in principal , in favour of the EU as it satnds, although I am less pleased with some ( a lot ) of the beurocracy and the money wasted on it.
I see no reason why we in the UK and the other "dissident" member states cannot be deeply involved with the community whilst keeping their currency. All this economic integration has been driven by Germany and France (historically two very strange bedfellows), and each has something different to gain from it. Other nations may not be as lucky, there will always be underdogs, as I am sure some states in the US are considered, and probably those members of the EU who choose not to "euro" will be seen. There are still many "poorer" countries waiting to join.

Just as an aside, I believe that the UK was the only country whose economy actually met the criteria set for economic union !

G

[Jonty]

Well said Graham, my sentiments entirely.

I find it strange that France has agreed to the Euro, generally they do as they please regardless of any Euro law. It must have been in their interest to take the Euro up.

[Lemon[H]ead]

Does the US waste as much money as the EU subsidising stuff like farming, fishing etc??

[ryogenetic]

Originally posted by Graham

The union of the states that now constitutes the USA was a very bloody affair, and the ideas, beliefs, and ideals were nowhere near as diparate as those in Europe. Evidently in the case of the US the struggle was worth it, the US is now the undisputed world leader in many fields, but that is no guarantee of similar good luck here.
G [/B]

Worth it?? I am not sure about that. There are far too many problems that the US still has fix. And the fact that we are expected to be leaders is an add toll. The fact that the world looks to us places a burden that would do better at home in the back yard. If it were feasible IMO the US should revert to Isolationism. Until a point where 1. The world does not look to us for support. 2. We have brought the US to a better level of understanding and well being. Trust me I am still for the info sharing and commerce. But I see no reason for being a UN or Nato police adgency

RYO

[Graham]

ryogenetic,
I understand your point, however it is up to those who can to do.
Those that "do" will always be complained about by those who "cant" or "wont".

Sorry if that is a little tortured, but I hope you get the gist,

Noblesse Oblige

If the world does need a police force or a nurse or a canteen, then it falls to those who have the capability to supply the service, or should we would allow people to die from riot, diease, or starvation?

As civilised nations could we live with ourselves if we didnt try to help?

G

[DutchMaster]

Now I have paid all my groceries with Dutch Guilders and I still have F9,- left. Hmm I have to calculate in the shop so I can dump the last ones (got a conversioncalculator in my phone). Luckely everything is still double priced. Hmm F9,- = €4.08

Ohyeah have to get used not using the , anymore in figures. Thats typically Dutch, like we say F100.000,00 instead of F100,000.00

[Randolph Carter]

If it were feasible IMO the US should revert to Isolationism. Until a point where 1. The world does not look to us for support. 2. We have brought the US to a better level of understanding and well being. Trust me I am still for the info sharing and commerce. But I see no reason for being a UN or Nato police adgency

Sometimes I think that would be best too ryo. This of course is because I am from the US myself and of course you know that a gain in one system usually means a loss in another so it seems to me that as this eur grows stronger and the quality of life increases overseas then it seems reasonable to think that not only will the US loose its world power in time but the quality of life for most Americans would also suffer. However when you think about it this cannot be avoided in any circumstance as I see it also I wouldnt be complaining if it benefited me only when it didnt (which it doesnt). And who can disagree with everyones quality of life being better even if it means some have to sacrifice the way they live. (I of course talk about the common person as it seems those with wealth will adapt quite nicely to any environment where profit is to be gained)

Also someone mentioned that it was up to the countries that can to help those that cant. This is a wonderful concept by itself however it seems a bit like the way the nobles handled chivalry (spelling?) it was a fine thing to follow those rules when it cost you nothing but should your pocket be affected or wealth to be gained well that was another matter entirely. It seems this is more to do with money (literally )