Trust us, they said.

[M_Six]

Did anyone really think the Patriot Act would only be used against terrorists? Next time you go across state lines to grab some fireworks for the 4th of July, think about this. You could very well be charged as a terrorist and be facing many years in jail.

Now before the flaming begins, understand that I am not at all soft on crime or criminals, but there used to be a thing called "due process" in this country that Bush and his cronies are walking all over. I wonder how many of the folks who have spoken out against the government on these forums already have files open in some gov't database.

[Siliconjunkie]

I agree with your thought process and worry that it could be abused, but I don't mind them using it in the cases they mentioned.

But, thats usually how it works, you don't mind until its you..

[Theophylact]

September 14, 2003

U.S. Seeks Expansion of Terror Subpoenas

WASHINGTON (AP) -- To aid the fight against terrorism, the Bush administration wants to add a subpoena power that does not require federal investigators to seek approval from a judge or grand jury.

Justice Department officials say use of "administrative subpoenas'' would enable the FBI to obtain information from records or witnesses that might more quickly prevent a terror strike. Critics say the extension of power is unnecessary and would permit investigations with no judicial supervision.

"It's just a grab for more and more power,'' said Gerald Lefcourt, a New York attorney and past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. "They want to do things that they know a judge won't approve of.''

Legislation authorizing the new power would require that the person getting the subpoena in national security cases keep that information secret from nearly everyone except his lawyer. Anyone who did disclose the existence of the subpoena could be charged with a crime and put in prison for up to five years.

President Bush pressed Congress last week to unshackle law enforcement by adding terrorism to the list of investigations in which administrative subpoenas can be used. They already are used often in health care fraud, child sex abuse and other cases.

Bush also wants lawmakers to expand the federal death penalty to cover more terror-related offenses and make terror suspects ineligible for release on bond.

The proposals quickly became known as "Patriot II'' on Capitol Hill, a sequel to the Patriot Act passed shortly after the 2001 terror attacks. That law expanded government surveillance capabilities, toughened criminal penalties and removed a legal barrier that for years prevented information-sharing between intelligence agencies and criminal investigators and prosecutors.

The centerpiece of the new plan is the administrative subpoena, which Congress already has authorized for other cases. More than 4,000 of these subpoenas were issued by federal prosecutors in 2001, the latest year for which figures are available.

"For the sake of the American people, Congress should change the law and give law enforcement officials the same tools they have to fight terror that they have to fight other crime,'' Bush said in a speech last week.

The legislation, introduced by Rep. Tom Feeney, R-Fla., a day before Bush's speech, would enable prosecutors to use the administrative subpoena to elicit testimony from witnesses and require a person or business to produce "books, papers, documents, electronic data'' or other evidence deemed necessary in a terrorism investigation.

Opponents say the Justice Department already has numerous legal tools to obtain records and compel witnesses to talk, including grand jury subpoenas that are routinely and easily issued by federal prosecutors. The FBI uses national security letters to require businesses to turn over a wide range of records in counterterror and counterintelligence investigations.

Also available in international terror probes is the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant, including an emergency FISA warrant approved personally by Attorney General John Ashcroft, that provides a 72-hour window for wiretapping or eavesdropping before review by a secret court.

Timothy Edgar, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union, said the administrative subpoena gives the Justice Department "the power to get records from groups or individuals without any court supervision at all. This directly impacts on the privacy of citizens.''

Justice officials counter that a business or individual can refuse to comply with an administrative subpoena, which would force prosecutors to convince a judge that the information is needed for an investigation. They also say the subpoenas provide immunity from lawsuits for businesses who would otherwise willingly disclose sensitive information about customers or clients.

In addition, prosecutors say grand jury subpoenas often order evidence to be turned over within a specified time. Administrative subpoenas require the evidence to be produced on the spot.

The fate of the proposals in Congress is uncertain.

A growing number of Democrats and Republicans have expressed skepticism about the existing Patriot Act powers and may be reluctant to give the Justice Department more. The administration also runs a risk that opponents could try to rescind some existing powers during debate.

"Many in Congress this time will be wary of writing any more blank checks for this administration without more accountability,'' said Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, senior Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee.

From The New York Times. (I've posted the whole story for those people who refuse to register.)

edited: Whoops! Accidentally left out the last three paragraphs; fixed now.

[SiliconJon]

Gasp

[Mike]

Originally posted by Siliconjunkie
But, thats usually how it works, you don't mind until its you..

Very nice... I'm glad that you are one of the few that realize this. Just because it isn't happening to me, doesn't mean that I shouldn't care about what's happening.

[no1_vern]

Quote

''Within six months of passing the Patriot Act, the Justice Department was conducting seminars on how to stretch the new wiretapping provisions to extend them beyond terror cases,'' said Dan Dodson, a spokesman for the National Association of Criminal Defense Attorneys. ''They say they want the Patriot Act to fight terrorism, then, within six months, they are teaching their people how to use it on ordinary citizens.''

Did ANYONE really believe them?? The Patriot act is just another of Big Brothers methods of removing us from our liberties in the name of "safety".

[sixf00t4]

i walked by a payphone the other day. it had a sticker on the handset that read "this phone is being tapped under the patriot act" hmmmm yeah i think i will use that one

[shahani]

Hopefully Bush and Co. will be back in Crawford, TX next year.

For good.

[Renesis]

Hopefully.

[Theophylact]

I'm with you, Renesis, but I think the battle over "hopefully" has long since been lost...