The old Pro-Choice Death Penalty Comparison

[Epidemic]

I often hear the arguement made that people who are pro life are contradicting themselves when they believe in the death penalty. The two arguments are quite different

Well first off I am not against abortion, but, lets compare the two belief systems.

Pro-Life:
They believe that an unborn fetus is a vested (completely innocent) human being from the moment sperm hits egg (and some before that). They look at it as if a baby were like the beginning of "Look who's talking now". Where the fetus nothing but potential and abortion robs that potential.

Pro-Death penalty:
Contrast that with a murderer for pleasure of money. A vested human being who decided to take away another human beings life for selfish reasons. Where the the state euthenizes an un-repentent scumm would do it again as soon as look at ya.

They are obviously not mutually exclusive or contadictory now are they?



Now that is their belief. Mine falls more along the lines that the first trimester fetus is little more than a growth, A clump of cells with no higher reasoning than a the common cold virus or a wart. The only value in a fetus IMO is in the aspirations of the parents until after the point of self sustained viability. I also believe that there are worse things a child can endure than death before the brain is developed. Like not being loved, not having enough food, having addicted parents, and general abuse. to stop a birth from happening that is subject to these problems is kinder then forcing a person to become a parent against their will..

The pro life movement is a nobel one. I just happen to disagree with their conclusions.

As a pro choice individual do you believe that you should be able to kill a baby 9months before birth, 4 months before birth, 1 second before birth, 1 second after birth, 1 week after birth, 1 year after birth? Why not?

The new born has not really formed many attachments after only 1 minute or hour. the kid does not what to be a doctor or to help sally struthers eat african children (oops I mean help the poor).

My cut off for abortion is when the cerebral cortex is formed (the place where all higher reason exists hence the point of humanity. IMO).

Of course I do not have any proof that 1 second after conception a soul is not in that zygot planning their life. Absent proof either way I say it is a belief system and as such you should not interfere with peoples beliefs. The day they prove that the zygot, fetus dont like being terminated is the day I stop supporting a womans right to choose.

[ShawnD1]

I can tell right now that will be a huge flame war, anyway.....

I sort of side with the pro choice people who think it's completely up to the mother. The excuse that "the fetus has potential" is pretty lame. Potential of what I always ask. People say "he could have been the next Albert Einstein" and I always say back "he also could have been the next Charles Manson or Ted Bundy."

An abortion destroys 1 life. Making a woman into a mother against her will often destroys 2 (in a non literal way).

[pickel]

That's up to the people invovled in this senerio to decide. Having never been or going to be in this type of situation, I really don't have a opinion, except whatever decision the parents make, they will have to live with it either way. Pro choice is for people who didn't have enough sense to use the proper protection and find themselves in one big ole mess ( except for rape, etc. ) Either side is a copout IMO.

[ShawnD1]

Ok well how about if abortions are 0% covered by insurance, medicaid and medicare?

How much do abortions even cost?

[Gomer]

The day they prove that the zygot, fetus dont like being terminated is the day I stop supporting a womans right to choose.

If you have terminated something, how can you tell if it liked it or not? If that is the basis of your arguement it is irreparably flawed.

[Knothead]

Originally posted by Gomer

If you have terminated something, how can you tell if it liked it or not? If that is the basis of your arguement it is irreparably flawed.

Not neccessarily. I think we need to finally establish at which point a fetus actually becomes a full human being. At that time, we'll know for sure what that termination would mean to this fetus.

Me, I believe that the soul (spirit, elan vital, etc.) is what makes the complete human, and that it enters the infant's body at the moment of birth.

[Gomer]

Still flawed.... even if termination meant nothing to me... you still couldn't do it. Ask Dr. Jack about that one if ya don't believe me. Address it to Prisoner No. 284797, MI State Pen.

IMO you could terminate a 1 week, month or year old without it giving a damn. At what point is someone even congizant they exist? That's probably the point they begin to ponder termination.

I'll agree that there is a wide gray area and much discussion to be put into when a human is a human... but the "cares about termination" test is surely not the answer.

Hopefully that clears up my reasoning for calling that argument flawed.

[M_Six]

I think it's also important to make the distinction between Pro-choice and Pro-abortion. Pro-choice means you believe it is up to the parents. I do not consider myself Pro-abortion. I see it as an absolute last resort, not to be used as birth control except in cases where the fetus is liable to suffer birth defects (as with an addicted mother) or has been determined through tests to have abnormal development. But that is my opinion, my choice. Other people may feel differently and should be allowed to make their own choice.

Choice is the key word here.

[ShawnD1]

Anybody who has ever seen a coke baby would agree that those should never be born. People against abortion don't know what they are talking about until they have seen the following:
1. coke babies
2. twins joined at the head
3. a kid with no immune system (bubble boy)
4. a kid who is severely retarded

I challenge any person against abortion to take care of one of the above for a year and tell me that their being born was not a mistake.

[Gomer]

agreed... but abortion should not be birth control.