On secret detentions:

[Theophylact]

A good quote from Jim Henley:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The question is not "Do terrorists deserve the same rights as ordinary criminals?" The question is "Are terrorist suspects terrorists?" That's exactly congruent with the question "Are criminal suspects criminals?" We have centuries of experience on what can go wrong trying to answer that question, and developed an elaborate system of rights and procedures to minimize the potential for disaster - depriving the innocent of the liberty, property and even lives. We know that politicians, bureaucrats, law enforcement agents and intelligence operatives are human and fallible - that such people have lied, bungled, covered up lies and bungling, been gripped by a fever of wrongheaded enthusiasm and arrogance. From LA to Tulia to Boston, these human actions have devastated innocent people, in the case of Tulia an entire innocent town. We can be absolutely sure that terrorism investigations will lead to similar incidents and likely already have.

[BeeQuewl]

...make an omelette...break some eggs...

unfortunately the people running the investigations are only human....

[Theophylact]

I guess you can't imagine that it might be your eggs getting broken.

When you're an innocent person, jailed for an indefinite period, not allowed to have a lawyer, uncharged with any crime -- then you have the right to say it's all right to break some eggs for the sake of making omelettes. Until then, it's simply cruel -- and short-sighted.

No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

John Donne, Meditation XVII

[daveleau]

In regards to the "illegal detentions", there is no document in the US nor internationally that protects these people from being detained. So, they are not illegal. Our humanitarian nature is what has provided their living conditions that are in accordance with GC requirements for POWs (these again are not POWs). The GC covers people acting for a government that is in power, and the US Constitution protects citizens. Most of those detained are neither. The men on Gitmo are perfectly legal detainees. The only detainees that have any question over their heads are the US citizens suspected of terrorism. And those depend on how you classify them by way of Habeas Corpus, of which I have alluded to several times. If these are termed invaders or seen as people trying to overthrow the govt then they too have no question about their legality.

[osprey4]

Originally posted by Theophylact
When you're an innocent person...

Illegal aliens don't seem to fall under this category, do they?

[ClubMed]

osprey4 I can't access the site, but the quote Theo posted does not mention illegal aliens, it's talking about suspected terrorists.

No matter what you have been suspected of doing, if you are being held as a suspect then you should receive the full protection of the law while the institutions are busy trying to find out whether you are innocent or guilty.

Dave seems to have forgotten that the government had to invent a new definition so that it could treat persons outside the realm of the law. In other words some politicians wanted treatment of suspects beyond legal protection.

For example if the law states that we must protect thieves or murderers from certain treatment and I come and decide to call them billabongs then they are no longer covered by the law, what does that say about me? That I am a nice guy who simply can't find a law to be applied to billabongs? Or that I deliberately called them billabongs so that I could do something to them that the law forbids?

[osprey4]

Just so you'll understand, the majority of those suspected terrorists were, in fact, illegal aliens. Many have already been deported.

Deported legally, I should add.

I don't know how they do this sort of thing in your country.

[ClubMed]

The majority? How many? Who? You think terrorists are 'deported' or put behind bars??

[osprey4]

Department officials acknowledged to the inspector general's office that they realized soon after the roundups began 'that many in the group of Sept. 11 detainees were not connected to the attacks or terrorism.'

Obviously, they're not releasing people they still suspect of being terrorists.

Or is that what they do in your country?

[ClubMed]

I'd like some facts osprey4, post some and we can talk. You said the majority has been deported, so you must be referring to something, share it. You make a lot of claims, but when I ask you for sources you don't provide any.

In Theo's other thread I made an effort to answer your questions and I provided loads of links to back up what I say, then I asked you some questions and you haven’t touched the thread since.

That’s pretty cheap, we do it differently in my country...