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Old 04-09-2003, 05:18 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Has anyone heard of any iraqi discontent in freed cities and towns?

I expected a much colder reception in baghdad than we have been receiving.
Has anyone heard about a single crowd of unhappy iraqi's or has it all been
positive to luke warm after troops are kicked out of cities and towns?

I do not know if al-jezeera has any stories of even localized anti american sentiment.

I simply have not heard of any and I expected more.

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Old 04-09-2003, 05:26 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Eh. Have you a filter on when you read the news?
Most news sources are full of articles about discontent iraqis... People without medical supplies, water or electricity.

I don't understand you.
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Old 04-09-2003, 05:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I think he means angry at the US troops - not unhappy with the lack of supplies.

Our news is so watered down by the time we get it I have no idea what's really going on over there.

It's also only a brief synopsis now - the novelty has worn off, I think.

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Old 04-09-2003, 06:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I know of one discontent Iraqi. He "found" this monitor for a really good price but can't locate the drivers. Can anybody help him?
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Old 04-09-2003, 06:08 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I think I've seen many angry iraqis in tv, and read about them in news.

Being angry doesn't mean one should go throw rocks at allied troops - that would mean insta death as it's considered hostile action, no sane person would do that.
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Old 04-09-2003, 06:14 AM   #6 (permalink)
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This Iraqi man felt discontent when the young, effeminate British soldier refused his advances...

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Old 04-09-2003, 06:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I am not talking about those in bombing incidents or the likes. I am talking once freed from control.

I am sure you can see a father mad about his wife being blown up and the mother mad about loosing a sister brother whatever.

I am wondering if anyone has seen concentrations in freed area's, of angry people.

I wonder if the news you watch even shows the crowds of cheering people that I have seen.

I have seen many shots of people crying and angry over loss of loved ones but that is to be expected. Collateral damage does not make people happy. So I guess what I am wondering is

What do you think polling data would say right now?

Ding dong the witch is almost dead.

Death to America for invading us.

George Bush we love you (I did hear that one)?

Thanks America and stop right now we do not want to see any more of our iraqi brothers killed.

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Old 04-09-2003, 06:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Of course I've seen happy people too. But you weren't asking about that.

Hmm... I don't think anyone has made polls about that yet. And doubt ever will.

But I would assume->
Beginning of war:
Good: More
Bad: Less

Middle of war:
Good: Slightly less
Bad: Slightly more

End of war:
?

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Old 04-09-2003, 06:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
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interesting take the muno. So you are saying as time goes on support is wayning?

That would be almost 100% the opposite of what I am seeing.

In the beginning of the war in the furthest outskirts people were warm. But became a little cold as you say, but the reason can easily be attributed to violent oppression forced on those who displayed support for US actions.

Now as the war population is rapidly being freed they are displaying logorithmically more support.

Of course there is the fact that those who are angry with us probably do not show up at happy happy joy joy parades but it does not appear that any angry angry mad mad protests have even appeared in coolition uncontrolled sections.
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Old 04-09-2003, 06:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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This is from today's (4-9-2003) NY Times.
Thomas Friedman has been pro-war.

Hold Your Applause
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN


UMM QASR, Iraq — It's hard to smile when there's no water. It's hard to applaud when you're frightened. It's hard to say, "Thank you for liberating me," when liberation has meant that looters have ransacked everything from the grain silos to the local school, where they even took away the blackboard.

That was what I found when spending the day in Umm Qasr and its hospital, in southern Iraq. Umm Qasr was the first town liberated by coalition forces. But 20 days into the war, it is without running water, security or adequate food supplies. I went in with a Kuwaiti relief team, who, taking pity on the Iraqis, tossed out extra food from a bus window as we left. The Umm Qasr townsfolk scrambled after that food like pigeons jostling for bread crumbs in a park.

This was a scene of humiliation, not liberation. We must do better.

I am sure we will, as more relief crews arrive. But this scene explained to me why, even here in the anti-Saddam Shia heartland of southern Iraq, no one is giving U.S. troops a standing ovation. Applause? When I asked Lt. Col. Richard Murphy, part of the U.S. relief operation, how Iraqis were greeting his men, he answered bluntly and honestly: "I have not detected any overt hostility."

Overt hostility? We've gone from expecting applause to being relieved that there is no overt hostility. And we've been here only 20 days. As I said, I'm certain things will improve with time. But for now, America has broken the old order — Saddam's regime — but it has yet to put in place a new order, and the vacuum is being filled in way too many places by looters, thugs, chaos, thirst, hunger and insecurity. A particular problem here in the south is the fact that British troops have still not totally secured Basra, the regional center. Without free access to Basra, the whole southern economy is stalled.

It would be idiotic to even ask Iraqis here how they felt about politics. They are in a pre-political, primordial state of nature. For the moment, Saddam has been replaced by Hobbes, not Bush. When I asked Dr. Safaa Khalaf at Umm Qasr Hospital why the reception for U.S. forces had been so muted, he answered: "Many people here have sons who were soldiers. They were forced to join the army. Many people lost their sons. They are angry from the war. Since the war, no water, no food, no electricity. . . . We have not had water for washing or drinking for five days. . . . There is no law, no policeman to arrest people. I don't see yet the American reign of running the country."

The scene at Umm Qasr Hospital is tragic. A woman who delivered a baby an hour earlier is limping home, and her mother has the baby tucked under her black robe. An old orange Dodge speeds up and a malnourished teenage boy moans on the back seat. A little kid is playing with an X-ray film of someone's limb. In the hospital lab, the sink is piled with bloody test tubes, waiting to be washed when the water comes back on.

What is striking, though, is that after people get through complaining to you about their situation, they each seem to have a story about a family member or cousin who was arbitrarily jailed or killed by Saddam's thugs. They are truly glad to be rid of him. America did good in doing that, so now we must build a peace we can be equally proud of.

But this is such a broken land. Its spirit was broken by Saddam long before we arrived, and now, because of this war, its major cities and iron-fisted order are being broken as well. Killing Saddam alone will not bring America the thank-yous it expects because Iraqis are not yet feeling free. Only replacing Saddam's order with a better order will do that. "There is no freedom because there is no security," said Dr. Mohammed al-Mansuri, the hospital's director.

We are so caught up with our own story of "America's liberation of Iraq," and the Arab TV networks are so caught up with their own story of "America's occupation of Iraq," that everyone seems to have lost sight of the real lives of Iraqis.

"We are lost," said Zakiya Jassim, a hospital maintenance worker. "The situation is getting worse. I don't care about Saddam. He is far away. I want my country to be normal."

America broke Iraq; now America owns Iraq, and it owns the primary responsibility for normalizing it. If the water doesn't flow, if the food doesn't arrive, if the rains don't come and if the sun doesn't shine, it's now America's fault. We'd better get used to it, we'd better make things right, we'd better do it soon, and we'd better get all the help we can get.
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