How to "Oppose" Something By Shooting Yourself in The Foot.

[MegalosSkylaki]

Several years ago,inNew York City, a Korean grocery store was accused by "community activists" [I put this in quotes not to cast doubt on their views, but out of recognition of the difficulties involved in determining who speaks for a community], of showing disrespect to community residents. The community residents were predominantly African--American.

I do not know whether these accusations were true or not. I was not there.However, these and other "community activists" decided to call a boycott of this grocery store.They set up picketlines, used catcalls to dissuade buyers and other activities some of which were noisy.

The newsmedia picked up on it so naturally politicians and "public figures' would join the pickets lines--doubtlessly out of either sincere conviction or a desire for "photo ops".

Several prominant African-American politicians as well as Caucasion ones, who IMO would otherwise not be caught dead in this economically--depressed neighborhood in an outer borough-- joined in what became a media circus that lasted several months , with often daily picketers on the dozans standing in front of the grocery store, often shouting their views to the merchant before the TV camaras.
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I bring this up for two reasons.
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First, it seemed to me that even with a minimal of economic knowledge, the target merchant--without passing judgement on the merits of the dispute--could have been driven out of business and done so in a way that would have provided tangible benefits to the community.

They could have rented one of the many vacent stores in the neighborhood and started a grocery store. The time spent on the picketlines could have provided a labor force that donated its time serving the community by donating their time to this Cooperative Community Grocery Store.

The shouting would have been expressing full respect to all customers, who would have benefited from the lower prices made possible by donated labor.Certainly a greedy landlord could have been found who would have been more than happy to rent one of the many empty stores for a modest rental.

The allegedly "disrespectful" storefront owner would have been both made an object lesson and put out of businesss through the market forces of lower prices/superior service.

There would of course have been less 'photo-ops" for various public figures of several races and less media-coverage of shouting picketers. How much media interest is a grocery store in operation ?

The Community would have benefited from lower prices/superior service AND would have a grocery store once the offending merchant was put out of business.

This was not done. The media circus was done.
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I bring this up because there have been post and counter-posts, replies and counter replies here and elsewhere aboult a variety of grievances regarding both countries and groups.

The reality is that even a casual reading of History will show that virtually every country has land grabs, usurpations, and even genocidal acts in its history.

This is true --I am aware --of even my own beloved country of my birth. The Governor of the Massachusetts Colony gave out blankets from smallpox victims to the Indians in the hope they would contract the disease and die. I am sure virtually everybody can find land migrations and takeovers in their own countries history.

If all the money, effort, dedication, wars, deaths,etc. were put to better use in building something positive, do you think some of these groups would be in the sorry straits they are today? Need I compare the condition of Denmark with its limited physical size and resources to that of Iraq ,with is huge petroleum reserves?

Wouldn't a Hospital or a medical instruments factory be of greater benefit than chemical weapons to Iran? How much money has been spent in trying to undue a near-century of history than in helping the Palastinian Arabs?
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I am not equating the situation of the the grocery store to that of the complexities of the Middle East. I am suggesting that alternative solutions require building for yourself, not destroying for others.

deDOOOG

[Ratface2u]

Hey

Quote:

" Wouldn't a Hospital or a medical instruments factory be of greater benefit than chemical weapons to Iran? "

Yes it would. But the ones it would benefit, would be the
people of Iraq, not the ones in charge. The government of Iraq is only interested in power, and in helping destroy Israel and her allies ( United States ). It cares nothing about its people and has even used chemical weapons to kill them.
IMHO

[caddmannq]

If all the money, effort, dedication, wars, deaths,etc. were put to better use in building something positive, do you think some of these groups would be in the sorry straits they are today?

Face it Doogie: these people don't wanna work. They wanna bitch! Working is...well...WORK! Bitching is their prefered pastime.

They will put more effort into bitching to "accomplish" something, than into any logical, worthwhile or bennificial work.

In the end, they become lousey workers, but first-class complainers.

Seems to be a lot of that going around.

PS: That poor merchant was probably "offending" community members because he was tired of being shoplifted by them.

[MegalosSkylaki]

Caddq,

Don't know that about the merchant or the community--and with all due respect (so don't pull the catnip trick), neither do you.

It was the alternative responses that interests me, regardless of the merits of the dispute.

It was the chosen response that disturbs me.

DOOOG

P.S. Politicos--those people whose job it to get and hold power-- hoofed it or limosined it out there in droves, like it was on their social calandar.

[ClubMed]

The world would be a very different place if people could and would channel their anger into productive directions.

Fighting, bitching, complaining etc.. these are the easy ways 'out' of a problem or conflict.

As for your examples concerning the Middle East, I can tell you with 100% assurance, that if one could erase the governments and let the people rule themselves (democracy), the Middle East too, would be a very different place.

MegalosSkylaki your thoughts are noble and wise, but unfortunately too advanced to be understood by the global community at the moment.

[Szech]

I think to start a grocery store would require the initial investment, experience in running/managing a business, the idea and the initiative. Of these, I'd say the initial investment would be the hardest to get. Who'd front it? The community is impoverished. Outside investers would likely be deterred by small margins.

As for the chemical weapons/hospital thing. Governments don't necessarily represent the people. Same deal in North Korea. The people are starving and dying while Kim is off spending on long range missile technology and nukes. The amount of money spent on developing those weapons could be used to help the people.

If all the money, effort, dedication, wars, deaths,etc. were put to better use in building something positive, do you think some of these groups would be in the sorry straits they are today?

Probably not. But if it were that simple, it would have been done.

[caddmannq]

But if it were that simple, it would have been done.

It has been done.

Every poor soul that pulled himself up by his own bootstraps, worked hard, and made something of his life is an example of such. Too bad we don't (as a society) celebrate those virtues more clearly.

What we celebrate most is people that "made it" by way of a miracle. The people who won the lottery, won a big judgement, struck it rich, got off scott-free, etc. That's because everyone is waiting for that same miracle; for money to fall from the sky. A freebie. A twofer. The goose that lays the golden egg.

Well...not everyone exactly. Just the (evidently) large portion of the population who's taken in by all the hype.

Don't know that about the merchant or the community...neither do you.

That's true. I don't. But I was a small business man many years ago while I was in school. I remember getting ripped off, and how the people of certain neighborhoods felt perfectly justified in doing it. After all, I was an evil capitalist, raking their quarters in with my evil vending machines. I was a fair target in their eyes.

When caught, such people invariably painted me as the guilty one; when, in fact, I was just a poor school kid who was lucky enough to get a job that payed maybe $100 a month.

So if I generalize here, it's not without some experience in the whole business.

[MegalosSkylaki]

Dear Szech,

People are not born running a grocery store: they learn.

The initial investment is a lot of "sweat equity" which has been done in several other places by many groups in NYC: Art galleries, theatres,gardens and public parks, dance school etc.and in neighborhoods that were all but abandoned. I went to a friend's play in a theatre and coffee shop built entirely from "sweat equity"

Some machinary is needed like fridges for milk, but there is a whole neighborhood in NYC that sells that stuff including a lot of used stuff from closed groceries, or older but usable quipment.

The limosines that pulled up to protest could have quietly donated--no "photo ops" , sure, but weren't they just interested in the community? Must of taken some money to bus picketers, paint signs etc.

We're talking about a grocery store here ,not an a telemetry or heavy equipment fab. How much advanced or specialized training do you need to stock shelfs, open and knock down boxes, check prices on cans etc. ??

If anything , there would be a double benefit to the community in acquisition of vocational and occupational skills such building shelfs, working a cash register, keeping books, if indeed these are lacking as you seem to suggest.

Ahhh...The"idea and initative"?

How many learned and successful people visited that line? Would you suggest that in an entire community and nobody had the idea of opening a grocery store with all that free labor manning that picket line a block or two away?

Why wasn't there the idea of it?

Or, if I strongly believe, somebody had figured it out, why wasn't that idea acted upon?

Or was the community used and abused by people who had a different agenda than the advancement of admittedly a beleagured community?

In regard to the merchant, while I know nothing of of his manners, people who open and run small groceries in NYC are rarely people who work short hours or were "born with a silver spoon in their mouths".

DOOOG