? to tax cut advocates.

[willy_ph]

When discussions regarding the economy occur, all I ever hear are people who advocate tax cuts to improve the economy. Therefore, I have a question for them:

What happens when the government has eliminated all taxes?


I want to know what the so-called economists around here propose.

[RADAR1797]

Taxes are a necessary evil. Politicians want to increase taxes to gain power, the people must check it with the unwillingness to pay exhorted taxes.

-RADAR

[originel]

[rant]
i am actually against tax-cuts, especially on the scale that GWB is dealing with, so i'm prolly biased, but oh well.

more than that, what is going to happen with the current set of tax cuts? i can tell you one direct consequence on my personal life (which is definitely for the worse). Because of the tax cuts, the states aren't recieving as much federal income. as a result the state (texas) had to reduce it's budget. so how did they do it? the state schools. The amount of state income for Texas Tech (my college) makes up about 90% of it's total income (tuiton really makes up very little of it's income, it's around 5% i think). Recently the state cut our OVERALL funding by 7%!!! think about that. what would you say if your salary was cut by 7%? if you earned $100,000/yr before, now you would be making $93,000 a year. that's a pretty significant drop to me. As a direct result Tech implemented 2 new student fees (they weren't very big), but also increased housing costs by 10%!!! also they issue single rooms to non-freshmen through an application process (a good deal if you want to stay on campus more than just your freshman year). this year they issued 445 single rooms. next year they are only going to issue 110 single rooms (since obviously it costs more to house 2 students in 2 rooms as opposed to one, also it allows more students to live on campus). Also they are doing away with free bus services that run around campus, we now have to pay for them.

So what have GWB's tax cuts done for me? first of all since i only make about $2000 a year (since i mostly go to school), i only save maybe $20 a year. What else has he done? raised my tuition by at least 10%, but in reality it is more around 15% when you take into consideration the other stuff. Thank you GWB, i really appreciate it.

EDIT: added rant tags after re-reading my post

[/rant]

[RADAR1797]

Original.

There are two sides to every story, you have focused on one. State budgets are suffering b/c they were planning on the income of 1999, this was a poor decision on their part. If you want to see growth levels like 1999, then you better cut taxes, b/c the economy needs the injection of money.
We would not be in this mes if the States and Federal government would apply a flat tax, but that seems unlikely.

-RADAR

[willy_ph]

Originel, I'm facing the same situtation in Ontario. Maybe we should both move to Ireland where they have free post-secondary education. I'll try and scrounge up a letter to the local paper that pretty much sums up the situation in Ontario. (I'll post it in a new thread.)

Radar, as it stands right now politicians are using tax cuts to obtain power anyways. I'm finding a disturbing contradiction between your argument and reality.

[originel]

personally i don't see how a flat tax would solve this problem. as i see it, the economy affects the whole spectrum of people. basically all a flat tax will do is tax the lower income more. do you think that they are unaffected when the economy goes up or down? i didn't think so. besides, do you really want to take even more money from people that can't even make ends meet as it is?

hey willy i'm liking this whole Ireland thing. just gotta save up for a plan ticket is all. if my calculations are correct i will be able to get enough money for it in about 20 years or so at my current rate.

[Knothead]

It's actually very simple:

We currently have about one in five U.S. citizens working directly (and sometimes indirectly) for the "Gummint".

Cut taxes, and we increase the Unemployment Statistics. Which no politician wants to have happen, so they continue to raise taxes, and give "lip service" to decreasing them...meanwhile, the masses jump aboard that "Gummint" Gravy Train. And bloat the hell out of the Federal budget....resulting in more taxes....etc....etc...

And so it goes...on and on...
and on
and on
and on
and on
and on
and on.

HEY! Wanna hear something funny?

My uncle found my grandfather's tax return for 1939....

That year, my grandfather made $4,000...he had to pay
forty dollars in taxes... that's right, ONE PERCENT of gross earnings!

That's the way it used to be.

[RADAR1797]

Originel,

Still not getting the point laddy. If we were to radically shift taxes in the US to be fair across the board, the income would shift too. We cut the taxes of a small business owner who makes $300,000 a year, from 38% to 15%, we just gave him back $69,000 for that year. Well that is another employee. You do this on a national scale, people reinvest in their business hire more people, employees are in higher demand. In order to attract employees buinesses would have to offset their increases in taxes. After a few years the whole system straightens itself out and the unfair tax system that was the government's way to shape society is replaced by a system that treats everyone the same and the economy would run remarkably better.

Also seeing as you are in Texas and a Red Raider (we refered to you guys as butt pirates, but it was only in good humor), why don't you run down to the library or look online at the expenditures the states made when the economy was booming. Some states like Colordo put some of that money away are suffering little, other states like California and Texas to a smaller degree spent it as it came in.

-RADAR

[dday]

The proposition that government would eleimnate all taxes is ridiculous. It would be suicide for the "powers that be", and would and could never happen.
But the purpose of taxation in its' original form was to provide for the common defense and support of infrastructure. To be sure the system has been riff with abuse and continues to be. But raising taxes is what ensures more power to be shifted from us to them. Not the other way around.
One of the original purposes of federal income tax was not to better the infrastructure here in the U.S., it was to fund defecits that were accruing from fighting WWII. The Federal Revenue Act of 1942, read about it. It's an interesting study.
Freedom comes with a price in blood and money people! Nothing is free, including Freedom. There is always a price.

[Chuckiechan]

Someone needs to reduce taxes or there will be no way to raise them later! Think about it!

Unless you believe there is no upper limit to how much tax you can pay there is a point at which there is nothing left in your pay envelope!

California is going to take around and extra $ 1200 from me this year in vehicle fees and additional taxes because the state is broke. They are broke because we have no opposition party to champion tax cuts, only more spending! Now they are so high, taxpayers who can are leaving and tax consumers are staying. Me? I'm stuck.

Please don't Californicate the Nation!