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Old 01-03-2003, 05:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Bible question

I would like to settle a debate regarding a baptism, I have heard two different answers to this situation.
Does a person have to be submesed or not submersed to be saved.
Please give me a refernce in the bible to the answer?

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Old 01-03-2003, 06:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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How about the location in the bible where it talks about how someone is to be baptised?
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Old 01-03-2003, 06:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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http://www.godonthe.net/evidence/baptism.htm
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Old 01-03-2003, 06:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I just read an article last night about this subject. http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~revival/ask.html

Its a little long. basically it is talking about the method that modern Christians use to "get people saved"...that is by "asking Jesus into their hearts"...the author is saying that 'asking Jesus into your heart" isnt found in the Bible anywhere but that it is just a thing that has developed as modern society has tried to make so many things much more convenient.

Anyway the rest of the article talks quite a bit about baptism being needed for true salvation. It quotes lots of verses about Baptism.

personally I do not know where "sprinkling" came from, especially to infants although I know it is associated now with Catholic churches. In the old testament, things were sprinkled with blood to "cleanse" them so maybe it comes from that.


The thought that comes to my mind first off is a scripture that talks about John the Baptist being at a place where there was a lot of water...pretty much implying an immersion or "dunking"..not a sprinkling.

John 3:23 Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there.

Also this one which clearly denotes immersion or dunking.

Matthew 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water;

here is jesus "great commision" in mark, saying that beleif and baptism is needed

Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

And here Matthew 28:19-20 [19] Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [20] and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Until Jesus actually died and was ressurected, even though it is written in the New testament, it was still considered the "Old Covenant"...so actually for us today we need to look in the book of acts to see how they did things after Jesus had ascended back to heaven.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added [to them.]

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

Acts 8:36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, [here is] water. What hinders me from being baptized?"

Another one implying immersion Acts 8:38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

Acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed [their] stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.

Acts 22:16 'And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'


Acts 9 is interesting as it talks about Sauls conversion and his "damascus road" experience. he saw the blinding light and heard God speaking to him and then he was blind for 3 days. God sent someone to come talk to saul and after the guy laid hands on saul and prayed for him, he could see again and he got baptized. I suppose we all sort of think that paul was a Christian after the damascus road experience yet still he needed to be baptized.

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes [something] like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.


Some people use the example of the theif on the cross, saying that he didnt get baptized. Well, I guess not, hehe....besides as I said, that was still under the Old Covenant.

other scriptures say things like Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

that verse doesnt mention baptism, but whenever we see people actually being born again, or saved, we see Baptism

And here we see paul in jail, and the jail gaurd getting saved...paul tells him to believe on the lord and he will be saved...but it goes on to show the guy got baptised....so if we just quote the part about believing in the Lord we sort of take it out of context because in actuality the guy was baptised.

Acts 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed [their] stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.


What is preached today is that baptism is just "symbolic". just an outward expression....it seems in the book of acts that they didnt look at it as symbolic. that thing in acts 16:30 was somewhere around 1 or 2 in the morning so I doubt someone would do a merely symbolic act at that hour.

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Old 01-03-2003, 07:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Baptism varies from church to church. I can't speak towards any other sect of Christianity, but in the Christain Reformed Church as well as most of the Reformed branch, we believe that Baptism is a symbol of Christs washing away of our sin and is a pledge that the parents as well as the congregation makes to raise a child in the Christain faith. The ritual that would symbolize true salvation and acceptance of Chirst is called Profession of Faith. In the bible there are many refrences to Baptism...
Acts 2:38
Quote:
38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:12
Quote:
But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

This may help as well...

Baptism Link
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Old 01-03-2003, 07:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Also remember that any question like this has the tendency to start arguments and cause division...and that scholars have studied the Bible for centuries now and even they dont agree about many points...usually if there was a really clear cut yes or no answer, then there would be no controversy or disagreement about a subject.

personally I would recommend people to be baptized simply for the reason that the overwhelming number of cases in the new testament shows baptism and also...simply "what do you have to lose?". if a person really wants to show they have a new life and are giving their lives to God etc, seems like baptism wouldnt be too much to ask.

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Old 01-03-2003, 07:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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FIRST, I ask that you pray and ask for guidance. God can give you a clearer idea than anyone here or anywhere else.

Baptism is essential for Salvation, but not in the way most people think. Water baptism is an outward ritual while baptism by the Holy Spirit is something that MUST happen for you to be saved. The Greek of the New Testament makes specific delineations between water baptism and spiritual baptism, which are all translated as one word: baptism.

As for the ritual of water baptism, this is again an outward expression of an inward choice. The mode of water baptism is totally one of choice. Whether it is total submersion in water or a sprinkling on the head, is simply a matter of choice and both modes have references in the Bible. The ritual does not matter, the commitment to Christ and confession that He is Lord is what counts.

As for the absolute need for baptism, here is some scripture:

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

1 Peter 3:21:
21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[5] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Matthew 3:11:
I [John the Baptist] baptize with water those who turn from their sins and turn to God But someone is coming soon who is far greater than I am – so much greater that I am not even worthy to be his slave. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Romans 10
9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

1 Samuel 16:7
for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.


Good references:
www.biblegateway.com - for scripture lookup and boolean searches
http://www.rr-bb.com/index.php?s= - a pretty good and active forum I have found for religious discussion

I hope this helps. God bless
Dave
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Old 01-03-2003, 07:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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As a side note, Jewish law saw a baptized man as being a new man who is actually reborn. Children that are born after the baptism become the family's heir to the all-important birthright, even if children were born before the baptism. I am not sure if this continued after Christ's arrival, but this was one of many, many laws in an intricate set put into action by the religious leaders.
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Old 01-03-2003, 08:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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personally I got "saved" by "asking Jesus into my heart" when i was about 7. Then I got baptized in a muddy pond when I was 8. I dont remember any great feelings after I was "saved" but after I was baptised I remember being all hyped up and going to my grandmas house (they used the wall near the phone to right phone#s on) and writing stuff all over the walls like "jesus loves you" and things like that.

Just a little anecdote about baptism.

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Old 01-03-2003, 08:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I got baptized in a spring creek behind my house about 6 years ago.I wanted to be baptized,and didn't want to wait for church, so a new friend of mine was also an ordained minister,and we went to the creek in sept,and he baptized me.It was a wonderful feeling,and I'll never forget it.I had been saved for a couple of years,and we were having bible studies at the house,and had talked about being baptized the night before.
Unlike JP, I did have a big turn around in my life, but I was 27 when I got saved, that was the difference

To answer the question
Saved=giving your heart,and life over to Jesus,and then living by the principles,and examples set in the bible.
Baptized=Is signifying the death of the old sinful man(Going under) and the rise of the new man in Christ (Coming up) In the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost
You can be saved without being baptized, but baptizing won't save you.

I won't double all the verses that's been posted already
Hope this helps
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