Bible question

[sharder8]

One of the key points on baptism that has not been mentioned yet in regards to the need for baptism is John 3:3. "Jesus answered, and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." When Jesus was asked "how can a man be born again?" Jesus answered in John 3:5, "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

As for the question of sprinkling or immersion, I was taught that with the split in the Catholic Church by Martin Luther, sprinking during baptism probably started. It was at about this time that Menno Simons started the Mennonite religion in Switzerland. Menno had been a Catholic Priest, as had Martin Luther. However, Menno Simons interptation of the scriptures led him to continue with total immersion. That is the reason that the followers of Menno Simons were called Anabaptists.

So today, we still have Mennonites ---- >Baptists (all of which believe in total immersion). But, depending on how strict the interpetation of the scriptures, depends on the group (ie. Mennonite, Amish, Hutterite, and the various Baptist groups). The interesting part is that the Amish and the Hutterites are break offs of the Mennonites. And even within the Mennonites and Amish, their are numerous splits (ie. Old Order, New Order, Yellow Hats, Black Hats, White Hats, etc. and my group, the Ober-Holtzers).

Harder

[pickel]

All these different religons and only ONE GOD. People sure are fickel. Don't know how he puts up with us.

God puts up with more than we will ever understand from us humans, pickel. We even killed his Son when he sent him down here. But he still cares for us regardless.

Baptism to me is twofold: the baptism we are given by God when we confess Jesus as our Lord (baptism of the Holy Spirit), and the baptism by water through which we show others we are followers of Jesus.

Everyone who believes Jesus in the only way back into God's family is given the Holy Spirit as a guide, comforter and helper. This happens at the time you acknowldge Jesus as Lord. Mostly this event will be accompanied by an outward change in your lifestyle/behaviours as you choose to follow Jesus' teachings rather than your own thing. This I believe suignifies the first type of baptism (aka baptism of the Holy Spirtit).

The second kind of baptism is when you publicly acknowledge you are a follower of Jesus by having yourself immerses in water, symbolising the death of the old person and birth of the new. This is know as baptism by water.

Baptism of Holy Spirit is kind of automatic, and a part of your slvation experience. You may or may not notice the Spirit within you right away, although many claim to feel different immediately. Baptism by water is not automatic, and your salvation (saving faith) is not conditional on it. It is a way of demonstrating your faith in action to those around you, but only one of many ways.

I think Dave has a good point when he says to pray and seek guidance on this, as many will tell you different things. Study thoise verses already quoted, and ask god to help you understand them. Talk to those you know who have a close relationship with God about their understanding as well.

Anyway, all this is IMO, understand.

Cheers
Mick

[Xeroid]

An old Baptist Preacher explained it best to me when I was young.

"Water baptism does not wash away your sins. If it did I wouldn't want to get in the baptismal pool with you. I'd be afraid that some of your sins might float over in my direction".

Jesus died that I might live.

Mike

[Detritus]

This is an interesting discussion, but I have one question, how many of your sects of Christianity believe in infant baptism as mine does. We acknowledge both adult and infant, but in adult baptism it is equivalent to what we call Profession of Faith. Profession of Faith is our form of public acknowledgement of Christ, baptism is more of a pledge to raise a child in the Christain faith.

[daveleau]

Detritus
Infant baptism is a parent's pledge for the child's life and is widely acknowledged by many "sects" or denominations, although many call it Christening.

A couple of you have mentioned the differing views, and there are some minor differences here. While some rituals are personal or church preference, we (Christians) all believe in the same things: that is Jesus' infinite love for the world and His salvation. That is what matters. I see much more agreement here than anything else.

[Detritus]

I have to agree daveleau. No matter the differences as long as we agree that Christ is our salvation, the other differences are minor.

[sharder8]

I also agree with daveleau and Detritus!

Harder

[osprey4]

If baptism is required to be saved, then no one who was not baptized was saved. This is obviously wrong (OT saints, the thief on the cross to cite two examples), therefore baptism is not required to be saved.

Salvation comes by genuine repentence (realizing you are a sinner) and acknowledgement (faith) of the need for Christ as one's Savior and Lord.

Baptism is a public act of identification with Christ and His church.

[FastHotRod]

I just wanted to throw this out there for thought...

Often times, when faced with the decision to CHOOSE to do something, or be something, etc... it is necessary to PROVE IT. Just ask anyone that has joined a frat in college or became a Mason, and so on.

All the bible passages aside, it is a scary thing to put yourself into someone's arms and have faith that they will not drown you. Granted, some people can hold their breath longer than others... but it really is a test of faith to have someone control you that way. What if they were to hold you down under water a really long time to "really make sure" your sins were gone?

I think I'd be praying on the spot, making sure that everything came out okay, and having faith that God tells the priest that I am about to drown, and to let me up...

Just a thought...

Fast Hot Rod