Gun control advocates have no case.

[Epidemic]

wizzard.

are you going to be the one who determines need?

Self defense is a need that is not determined ahead of time usually.

I need my guns. Not for defense against other humans but against critters (snakes and rabid animals). I do not know about you but I have shot two rabid animals in my life and you probably would be wise not to try and hit them with a stick to kill them.

Humans as a threat is pretty low down here by me. But I will not say that there is no threat. I currently just rate it below that of lightning. However remote the chance of a lightning hit I still have lightning rods on my house JIC.

I feel that people who are not allowed to defend themselves should sue the hell out of the municipality which restricted their access to firearms. If I determine a need for self defense and the state restricts my ability to do so (and they do not provide me with protection at the time when I need it) They are liable for my injury or loss.

[daveleau]

My largest complaint to all of this is, a majority of the people who own guns do NOT need them for any purpose.

So people don't need to protect themselves? The average response in an urban area for police to arrive in response to a 911 call is over 10 minutes. My question is, what can a criminal do to you or your wife in 10 minutes provided you can get to a phone to make that 911 call? Pretty gruesome, huh? Police are not a protection from violent acts, but are there to apprehend criminals. Only one person can protect you. You. My belief is that everyone except felons and the mentally handicapped (includes illegal drug users) should have a gun and should be able to carry them. The next time some idiot decides to go on a shooting spree, it would end abruptly!

What you would say to that? You would say that if my wish became reality that there would be a huge rise in shootings. This has been proven to not be the case in the US. In the 30 states that allow concealed carry licenses, violent crime has dropped by 10 percent or more. (stats provided by economist and researcher, John Lott)

The truth is, as I stated above, America is safer when the criminals do not know who is armed.

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

How is carrying a gun on yourself in anyway self defence?

If a robber walks up to you and he doesn't know if you have a gun, but he knows he does, then his gun is at your temple, and he's scared. You reach for yours and it's over, That's if he doesn't shoot you anyway just incase you shoot him while he's running away. It's a circular argument, and personally I think you'ld stand a better chance not having one and him knowing this then having this happen to you.

Once he's robbing you, it's self defence for him to just shoot you. (just incase)

Personally I think gun's are one of the biggest curses on this planet, next to nuclear weapons. There is no need for them at all. If they weren't around the world would be a better place. IMO they should just stop making bullets, and the powder to make your own.

[osprey4]

I'm afraid to say it, but Mrbaseball's original argument is a logical fallacy.

I'm not being pro or anti guns, just pointing out that you cannot argue gun control on the basis of this fallacious comparison to physicians.

[daveleau]

True, that instance would be difficult to counter, but for every one of the ones you can think of that has a bad ending, I can show you one where there is a good ending. It is a myth what they teach you guys in Canada and it is surprising how many of you guys are the ones debating against gun rights, since you have no rights of your own in this area. The US is based on a Bill of Rights that is unlike any other enforced set of rights in the world. Our second installment to the Bill of Rights gives us the right to keep and bear arms. Wizzard~Of~Ozz
I really wish you would take me up on this offer. Take option 1 and I will read any book you desire on any subject. I think you would be utterly amazed at what you read. It is a short book, with funny anecdotes and real world descriptions with referenced stastitics as to why your arguements are 100% myth. It is an easy read.

[MrBaseball]

Originally posted by osprey4
I'm afraid to say it, but Mrbaseball's original argument is a logical fallacy.

I'm not being pro or anti guns, just pointing out that you cannot argue gun control on the basis of this fallacious comparison to physicians.

I know. Like I said, I wouldn't take that argument to a debate. I just thought it it was interesting.

[Epidemic]

Criminals are usually self preserving. They will not attack someone who they think is strong or difficult to take down unless they have a clear advantage. most defensive uses of guns end non violently as I understand it. When you see a bad situation you pull the gun and the bad situation never happens. Because you have just evened out the odds.


When is the last time a rock or knife went off while a child had it in their hands. If by this you mean how many kids were killed accidentally by means other than guns i would have to say a tremendous amount. Baseball, football, bicycle, trees, rocks, go carts, and hotdogs (choking) account for numbers ( I would wager) that are higher than that of guns.

Do not take my right to defend myself because others can not control their weapons or teach their kids properly.

My kids will not be a statistic. I am continually teaching them about my guns. my oldest is shooting 22 cb caps, she respects the guns and they are also secured from her access. I have complete confidence that she will not use them for other than their intended purpose with permission. I secure them to remove the remaining risk.

Accidental deaths by guns are very infrequent down here in the heart of gun ownerland. Many of my friends have between 12 and 15 guns. This is the make up of my county yet I do not think I have heard about a single kid getting shot by playing with the guns. Education is the major difference I can see. Our kids watch the same TV shows and movies and yet kids exposed to the most guns seem to fair better than the one hidden in the back of the closet in NYC. Those kids may very well have died because the gun was hidden and not to be talked about. Hence the child finding this secret weapon think they can play with it.

Virtually every case where I have heard about the accidental kids shootings it turns out that the kids thought it was a toy or thought it was unloaded. Thinking it is unloaded is never to be assumed according to the top 3 rules of gundome.

Lack of education

[SPEEDO]

I know. Like I said, I wouldn't take that argument to a debate. I just thought it it was interesting

That's why I backed off, But now that we are on a roll I think that I will have to agree with daveleau as the stats do back up his statement...............

In my hometown, the only shooting death I can think of offhand involved a 15 year old mentally retarded child and a 12 gauge shotgun.

So tell me, why should I hand over any of my guns?

[MrBaseball]

Originally posted by Epidemic


Do not take my right to defend myself because others can not control their weapons or teach their kids properly.

Lack of education

Exactly.