Zero Point Energy?

[willy_ph]

One of my philosophy prof's were talking about zero point energy today and I found myself very intrigued.

Anyone here know much about it?

[Theophylact]

What do you want to know? It was first postulated by Max Planck as a fiddle factor to explain the distribution of black box radiation. But it actually follows directly from Heisenberg's Indeterminacy (or "Uncertainty") Principle. Since the product of the uncertainty of an object's position and its momentum is greater than zero, it always has an irreducible amount of energy. This reference clarifies it somewhat:

The basis of zero-point energy is the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, one of the fundamental laws of quantum physics. According to this principle, the more precisely one measures the position of a moving particle, such as an electron, the less exact the best possible measurement of momentum (mass times velocity) will be, and vice versa. The least possible uncertainty of position times momentum is specified by Planck's constant, h. A parallel uncertainty exists between measurements involving time and energy. This minimum uncertainty is not due to any correctable flaws in measurement, but rather reflects an intrinsic quantum fuzziness in the very nature of energy and matter.

A useful calculational tool in physics is the ideal harmonic oscillator: a hypothetical mass on a perfect spring moving back and forth. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle dictates that such an ideal harmonic oscillator -- one small enough to be subject to quantum laws -- can never come entirely to rest, since that would be a state of exactly zero energy, which is forbidden. In this case the average minimum energy is one-half h times the frequency, hf/2.

But since the zero-point energy is irreducible, you can't tap it for any useful purpose.

edited to fix minor typo

[Redwolf]

I dunno about that Theo. I watched something on Discovery about this a while back. Sounds like they are working on a theory to tap it.

Basically, it's removing the strong force (and weak force?) from the atom and causing it to self-destruct. The resulting explosion is ENOURMOUS. Think supernova or something. Obviously, we currently don't have any of the technology to use this yet, but that would be nice.

[J-Excel]

Scientists playing with supernova level energy. That makes me feel warm and fuzzy. Quantum physics is to science as Voodoo is to religion.

[willy_ph]

http://keelynet.com/

That is the site that my prof suggested if we wanted more info.

[Theophylact]

Sorry, willy_ph, that's a loony site. Even the name is a clue -- Keely was a 19th Century fraud who claimed he had a machine that produced more energy than its input (turned out it was powered by hidden compressed-air lines). I can get the references for you if you like.

Redwolf, you must have got it wrong, or Discovery was smoking something illegal. Of course, the strong force is what holds nucleons together against the repulsion of the electromagnetic force. But like electromagnetism and gravity, you can't draw it down for power purposes. You do get huge amounts of energy released when you fuse or fission atoms (depending on which side of iron they're on); it does come from the strong force; it's called "Atomic Energy", and it's not new.

There is a question as to whether you can tap the "vacuum energy" that all of space is seething with. Probably not, but if you did, it might well cause a phase change that would make the entire universe collapse into a lower energy level, with a release of energy that would make the Big Bang look like a wet firecracker. I sort of hope no one will succeed.

[Knothead]

Originally posted by Theophylact
There is a question as to whether you can tap the "vacuum energy" that all of space is seething with. Probably not, but if you did, it might well cause a phase change that would make the entire universe collapse into a lower energy level, with a release of energy that would make the Big Bang look like a wet firecracker. I sort of hope no one will succeed.

Which is precisely why they'll try...it sounds almost irresistable.

In a purely theoretical sense, of course.

[J-Excel]

Like telling someone not to push the red button!

[Redwolf]

Well find a way, even if we have no idea now....

who knows, it may be hundreds or even thousands of years before we see zero point energy as an effective power generator.

[Ruler2112]

There are differing opinions among the scientific community as to the actual magnitude of the zero-point energy. Some think that a cubic meter of empty space holds more energy than everything we could ever produce using conventional methods and then some. There are others that believe lighting a match far outshadows the energy present in cubic parsecs of empty space.