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Old 10-11-2002, 07:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Glad I don't live in Oregon

Man, that state is always trying to write jacked-up new laws. The latest to be up for voting is a plan to provide government-sponsored, "free" universal health care.

The AP story

Sounds more like a plan to tank the state's economy and drive away businesses. Sure it all sounds like a good deal to the end user, but it will do more harm than good in multiple areas. Most obvious is the economic damage that will unfold. Businesses will get hit with up to an 11.5% increase in payroll taxes. You can kiss your raise goodbye then, and anyone just starting out will be working for minimum wage peanuts. And just to kick you in the teeth while your face is in the dirt, employees will get more money stolen out of their checks with an increased income tax. Advocates of the measure play it off by saying that there will be no montly premium (what do you call those taxes then?), no co-payment or deductible. Heh, they plan to need only 19 Billion Dollars to fund this. Like that'll ever work... it'll cost 30 billion, and they'll say that necessary improvements had to be made which increased the cost. And lest we forget highschool economics, tax revenue generally drops when taxes are raised. Not to mention that businesses can't expand, and people can't invest or save at anywhere near the same rate when the government takes money away from them.

And even if they could pull it off financially, does anyone even think they would be better off? If you do, and if you don't live in Oregon, I suggest you move to Canada. What a bright, shining example at how a government-run health care system fails to deliver good, or even adequate health care. You can expect wait times for simple things like examinations, and heaven forbid you have a life-threatening disease. You'll probably die or be well on your way before you get treated. Good doctors will leave the state. Why should they be forced to accept far less money that will accompany the massive increase in hassle? There will be no incentive to keep costs down. Really, when have you ever seen a government program try to decrease its costs? Quality of care will go down as a result. If you're always struggling to just meet the bottom line, how will you ever innovate or invest into newer technology?

Let's not forget that the sick and elderly will flock to Oregon in droves if this idiotic measure actually gets enough votes. Oh man, if you vote for this, and it does pass, you deserve y our fate, and I will laugh my butt off when you complain later. If Indiana ever passes something that resembles this foolish plan, I'll be sure to have my bags packed before it becomes law. And we can all thank Senator Hillary Clinton, once touted as one of the most intelligent women in America (ROFL!!! ), for helping start this nonsense back when her husband was President.

Uggh, I could go on for much longer with this, but I'm hungry. When I return, which may be tomorrow (12 hour shifts), I hope to see some arguments for "free" government-run universal health care. That way I can start making a list of those who can't think on their own and address them accordingly. *Mods, I understand that is taunting, but anyone who falls into that category deserves it, and you know it.*

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Old 10-11-2002, 08:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Mr. G, I live in Ontario, yet I don't see people flocking here to take advantage of our free medical system. Plus, our economy isn't/hasn't tanked as the result of free healthcare.

If anything it will attract people from all walks of life to the state for the social benefits that it will provide. 11.6% of the population of Oregon lives below the poverty level. The free healthcare system will look after those that live below that line.

This is being proposed in a referendum. It is up to the residents of Oregon to decide if they want free healthcare. Taxes aren't the only thing that drive the decisions of businesses. Social programs traditionally provide services that are chronically underprovided by business.

Social programs have a purpose, they provide social stability and equality for those who live in the state. Pluse, they don't traditionally tank economies. Get off the conservative soapbox.

Find an article entitled "Global Markets and National Politics" by Geoffrey Garrett. Although it has to do with national politics it provides analytical proof against the myth that social programs negatively affect economies.

Last edited by willy_ph; 10-11-2002 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 10-11-2002, 08:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I could never live in a state where it is illegal to pump your own gas.
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Old 10-11-2002, 10:02 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Never thought I'd live to see the day when I'd see a cross-threaded toad.
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Old 10-11-2002, 10:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Good one Knot---hehahah
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