CS Battleflag

[Mercenary Dragon]

Precisely my point Dave. I actually fly both the battle flag and the CS flag. I fly the battle flag because it was adopted by my great great great etc. grandfather Robert E. Lee to distinguish his armies on the battle field. I guess I'm just a special case but that's why I fly the battle flag. It's just that it seems most people seem to be a little misguided as to the history of it.

[CERuppel]

To me the confederate flag will always sybolize the United States lowest moment in history.

Our own goverment ordered our army to fire on its own citizens...

Because of that I feel that the flags (both) should be kept, as a reminder of that time. And as a symbol of what happened.

Because of that war our goverment has been forever changed.

True power in this nation changed hands from the elected to the appointed. Those in charge of the army had the power. And the elected were just there to be cute. That has grown and eveoled over the decades since, but is still there. The president, regardless of military experience is still called 'Commander in Chief', and can back up his decisions with force (see Afganistan).

This cahnge has effected every goverment in this nation since, and seperates us from all that came before. In the time of Tomas Jefferson there was no way for the President, without the full approval of congress, to use the army. The president was to act a a policy setter, and a final check on congress, not to act as a military commander. The military was its own seperate enity, not a branch of goverment.

Sorry about the rant. Hope this tells you how I feel about this.

(Yes, my teachers were strick, and yes I got this in high school).

[Warthog]

Ok, to me - whether this is correct or not - the Confederate battle flag does represent slavery, war, etc. Since I was born in CT and lived in the north most of my life, it means nothing to my heritage.

Warthog

[Theophylact]

To most black Americans, who are descendants of slaves, that flag (whether it's the the battle flag or the Confederate national flag) represents slavery, and has the kind of offensiveness that a Nazi flag has for an American Jew. Saying it represents one's Southern heritage is like an SS veteran's grandson saying that the Nazi flag represents his German heritage. It does, and it's offensive.

People who get all worked up over someone's burning an American flag really should understand the emotional power of a symbol.

[Mercenary Dragon]

If we are saying that the CS flags are the only symbols of slavery I think we all need to sit back and think. Slavery was supported under the American flag long before the south seceeded from the union. Does that make the American flag more offensive than the CS flag? I think not. Also the swastika on the Nazi flag was a symbol of peace and tranquility long before Hitler decided to use it.

[Theophylact]

Not the only symbols of slavery. And yes, the fact that slavery was enshrined in the US Constitution (Article I, Sections 4 and 9; Article IV, Section 2) are sore points; the late Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall made the point, when he said

Today's Constitution is a realistic document of freedom only because of several corrective amendments. Those amendments speak to a sense of decency and fairness that I and other Blacks cherish.

But the Northern states, with the exception of Maryland, had abolished slavery before the Civil War, and the only significant "State's Right" at issue in the War was the right to own slaves. It was very clear to Blacks then, as it is now, which side spoke for them.

By the way, the swastika that you describe as a "symbol of peace and tranquility" has its arms counterclockwise, not (as in the Nazi version) clockwise.

[kenyg]

my father-in-law - likes to wear his stars-n-bars belt buckle, and hat - to him, it's not about slavery or the civil war - it's his way of supporting Alabama's football team on Saturdays.

What do I feel about the flag - nothing really. About the civil war? It was a noble cause - ending slavery. But to the average foot soldier - I'm sure it was not about politics, or noble issues - it was simply a bloody mess.

on another matter - somewhat trivial.... I do a lot of patent searching - and one thing that kind of amazed me. If you find any German patent issued between 1932 (33?) and 1945.. there was a spot on the front where is was emblazened with the 3rd reich's symbol, including the swatiska - on every copy - the swastika has been inked out - so it appears as a black blotch - and that is quite a lot of documents.

[Xeroid]

I agree with Dave that there has been some confusion about the actual flags that represented the Confederate States of America. So, for your viewing pleasure I'll refer you to the following link Confederate flags of the American Civil War.

Many folks don't realize that the "Confederate Battle Flag" or "Southern Cross" was not the flag that represented the Confederate States. The "Southern Cross" was a flag carried first in battle by the Army of Northern Virginia.

The first flag that did represent the Confederate States of America was the flag that Dave refered to, the "First National Flag" or "The Stars and Bars". It was replaced because it was easily confused with the "Federal Flag" if it was a calm day and the wind didn't catch it. This caused a lot of confusion on the battlefield.

There were 2 more to follow. The "Second National Flag" or "Stainless Banner" was next. It was an all white flag with the "Southern Cross" located in the upper left corner. It was replaced because it was easily confused with a "surrender flag" if the wind didn't catch it just right because it had too much white in it.

The last or "Third National Flag" was adopted near the end of the war and was an improved "Second National Flag". A broad red bar was added.

Another interesting thing about the Confederate Battle Flag is that most people don't realize that it is square. The rectangular flag that you see it most often confused with is actually the "Confederate Naval Jack".

If you have an interest in Civil War history one of the best places to start is the American Civil War Homepage.

Mike