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Old 09-11-2002, 11:46 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Help w/ physics hw

I cannot figure this one out:

According to a rule-of-thumb, every five seconds between a lightning flash and the following thunder gives the distance of the storm in miles. Assuming that the flash of light arrives in essentially no time at all, estimate the speed of sound in m/s from the rule.

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Old 09-11-2002, 11:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Edit: misread your question. Will post shortly.

I think there may be something missing here. The thumb rule should be 5 seconds per mile- meaning thunder takes 5 seconds for each mile the storm is away. Just check.
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Old 09-11-2002, 12:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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C'mon, L&F: 1/5 mile per second. (It actually is about 1010 feet per second for dry at standard temperature and pressure -- not very different from the 1056 feet per second the rule of thumb gives.)

Last edited by Theophylact; 09-11-2002 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 09-11-2002, 12:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
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336M/sec I think, but I didn't tell you. I would assume they want you to say, okay, it takes five seconds for sound to travel a mile, so sound so SoS = 5,280' / 5sec in feet/sec. Then you just have to do the feet to meters conversion to get meters/sec. Easy, huh?
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Old 09-11-2002, 12:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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1056 f/s?
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Old 09-11-2002, 12:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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1.609 KM ~ 1 mile
that should help

<edit: (hmmm...you guys type too fast)>
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Old 09-11-2002, 12:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Easier yet: 1/5 mile ~ 1/3 km.
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Old 09-11-2002, 12:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You don't use stacked fractions in metric calculations. You use decimal fractions!

Sheeesh!
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Old 09-11-2002, 01:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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"Stacked" fractions? You mean common or vulgar fractions? Why not? Because you can't get your pocket calculator to display them?

I like them here because, the question being one of approximation, "1/3 km" is a lot more like the right answer than the falsely precise "336 m".

I once asked this question on a freshman chemistry exam:

"A gross of potatoes weighs 64 pounds; a gross of grapes weighs 2.4 pounds. How many pounds of potatoes do you need in order to have as many potatoes as there are grapes in 0.6 pounds of grapes?" And then, just to provide unnecessary (but confounding) information, I added "1 gross = 12 dozen = 144".

If you try to solve this problem by actually using the additional info and a pocket calculator, you tend to get answers with repeating decimals that you have to round off. If you have a cheap fixed-point calculator, you get wildly wrong answers -- at least, my students did. If you treat it as a problem of ratios, though: X/64 = 0.6/2.4, you get the answer "16" almost by inspection.

(If you're wondering why this was on a chemistry exam, it's because it's a "mole" problem, stripped to its essentials and talking about grapes and potatoes instead of, say, oxygen and uranium.)

My students were pissed off at me; I was pissed off at them, because most of them, it seemed, didn't know how to divide 64 by 4.

It's the wording, of course, that's at issue; I'm sure (I think) that if I had asked "How much is 64 divided by 4," most of them would have got the answer, even without a calculator. They were, after all, just college students, and probably hadn't yet forgotten all their arithmetic.
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Old 09-11-2002, 01:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
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No, because the metric system is based on decimals.

(I called them "stacked" fractions, as that's what AutoCAD calls them...just a bit of trivia...but yes common fractions.)

BTW, since most of my work is done in the "English" system, I use fractions or whole number ratios all the time...even the improper ones
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