is Kyoto even pheasable?

[LinuxNewbie]

do you think that the Kyoto agreement will be successful?

it somewhat seems unfair in some of the articles such as countries not being able to use trees as a credit for their country and that only the rich countries would have to cut back on pollution. for example, the US is very wealthy (in reality there's a debt that can't be paid off but just ignore that for now), the US has higher standards for pollution than say Mexico does. if you go into California with an oil burner of a car, they'll throw your butt in jail but if you go to Mexico with that same car you blend in with the rest. now under Kyoto, the US is wealthy so they would have to cut back emitions but Mexico is pretty much third world (second world technically) but since they do not have an abundance of wealth, they would not have to cut back pollution at all.

as for the trees example, Canada and the United States have a huge % of land which is trees compared to pretty much any country in the world yet that doesn't mean squat towards how much much pollution you have to cut back. places like Japan, Britain Spain don't have anywhere NEAR the % land mass of trees that Canada or the US have but the pollution reduction demand is the same. it's almost as if Kyoto does not recognize any benefit at all of there being trees in your land.

this agreement is being discussed here in my country (Canada) and our stupid prime minster Cretin or whatever the hell his name is is seriously thinking about signing this thing. sounds good right? well let me tune you in on something that none of you know. Canada has 10 (or is it 11?) provinces and either 2 or 3 territories, with the addiction of that Nunavut place i don't really know anymore. of those 12 or 13 provinces and territories, ONLY 2 OF THEM MAKE MONEY, Alberta and Ontario. Alberta is heavily based in oil because we're sitting on huge oil and natural gas reserves. Ontario is based on manufacturing and factory work, pretty much all products in Canada were made in Ontario. if Kyoto is signed, Alberta's oil projects will be stiffled and Ontario's manufacturing core will just be destroyed and a lot of the factories would probably shut down and setup shop in the US. at that point, all provinces and territories would be losing money and we would go into a huge resession.

i'm not sure about how the US works but i think they're probably the same way, manufactuing here, oil there but more dispursed.

thoughts suggestions?

[Warthog]

our stupid prime minster Cretin or whatever the hell his name is

LOL....surprised me

Really no thoughts on this because I haven't been following it....am interested to hear what others have to say.

Warthog

[Knothead]

Where are you from, LinuxNewbie? Just curious.

As far as how the U.S. thinks about the Kyoto Accords, last I heard, G.W. nuked it.

Australia has always been in a bad light with this emissions thing, primarily because we have so much natural resource and try to use it....

Countries like Australia and Canada will be penalised I believe as we won't be able to utilise our own resources; we'll have to buy them back from third world countries who have no limitations on emissions.

It sounds like a crazy agreement only suitable for the super-rich, super-powers.

IMO

Cheers
Mick

[LinuxNewbie]

i'm in Edmonton, Alberta

i too heard that Bush nuked it
those boys and their nukes god bless em

[willy_ph]

I was gonna say that you're from out west.

Personally, I think that the Kyoto protocol would be a blessing to southern Ontario. With nearly 40 or 50 days this summer having smog advisories, anything to curb the air pollution is welcome.

Secondly, being a rich country shouldn't exempt us from being responsible for the well being of the environment. If anything, it should force us to look after it even more and set a better example for the rest of the world. Everyone claims that we live in the most technologically advanced society, yet we have a hard time realizing the benefits of a healthy environment.

Pollution is probably having more of an impact upon the economy than what people realize. How many people are forced to work less, or not at all due to lung diseases (asthma) which affect the productivity of a province's/state's or nation's workforce?

The environment in which people work and live have a direct impact upon their productivity. Why do you think workplaces have environmental hazards identified and the proper safety gear provided for their employees to wear in those hazardous environments?

those 12 or 13 provinces and territories, ONLY 2 OF THEM MAKE MONEY, Alberta and Ontario.

This is the result of the regional nature of Canada. A simple course in Canadian history should easily explain the reasons behind it.

Despite the fact that Canada has a large % of forests, these forests are being continually logged each year. As well, the release of hydrocarbon emmissions from drilling operations in Alberta have a direct impact upon the depletion of the ozone layer.

As to Mr. Chretien's pledge to sign Kyoto, I congratulate him. And remember, despite all the whining and complaining from Alberta and the Alliance, the Liberals hold the majority in the House of Commons and the Senate. With the NDP and Bloc throwing their support behind the ratification of the Kyoto Protocol it will be ratified by the end of the year.

And may the environment be healthier for my grandchildren as a result.

BTW, I live in Southern Ontario. Come here for a week in July or August and see how you like the smog advisories.

[LinuxNewbie]

um dude? those other provinces sucking is because they have socialist governments. did you know that Alberta and Ontario are the only 2 provinces with a conservative government and we're the only 2 provinces making money? it's not coincidence.

Saskatchewan has just as much natural gas as Alberta does, you know that right? some drilling companies big in Alberta did some exploration in Saskatchewan and found HUGE reserves of natural gas but the NDP government there would claim so much in taxes and fees that the oil and drilling companies would barely make any money.

BC used to be a have province but the NDP (ultra socialist) turned BC into a have not province. BC is so screwed up with unions that no sane person would even attempt to setup a large company there. there was actually a report on CBC where these 2 girls were getting terrible hours at McDonalds in Whistler BC so they setup a union for that location so they couldn't get crap hours and that McDonalds location went down the crapper, the service was piss poor because McDonalds has a reputation for never firing anybody. my brother's friend used to work at McDonalds and he was the assistant manager. according to him, ONLY CRAPPY WORKERS GET BAD HOURS, they do it that way so the employee just quits and they don't have to fire you, it's easier because it requires less red tape such as chance of the employee going on a rampage or trying to say something about descrimination or having to give you the several weeks notice before firing you (in Alberta it's like 2 weeks or something).
stuff simply fails when you add socialism.

i really appreciate your love for the environment but if it's going to cost Canada it's livelyhood then it's just not worth it.

technicaly in recent studies, the forest is not shrinking at all. when an area is logged, the logging company plants hundreds of thousands of evergreens where they took the trees from.

[Heavy_Equipment]

Pollution in Lake Ontario has progressively gotten worse, the beaches are closed more than they are open now.
I live on Lake Simcoe, which is a good 60 miles north, and we had beach closings this summer. Can you say environmental impact?

but if it's going to cost Canada it's livelyhood then it's just not worth it.

Contrary to popular belief, pollution doesn't go away when you ignore it.

[LinuxNewbie]

dang i wish there was a happy medium.....

i am in support of some things of kyoto such as lowering pollution but i just hate it when they try to descriminate against countries with money just because they have money. just because Canada has money doesn't mean we should have to close our factories and let poor Mexico pump out more pollution than 10 Canadas combined without any sort of restriction, it's just BS. Canada has so many trees compared to places in Europe yet it has no gain.
Kyoto is like a bill with good intentions but it deliberately tries to jerk around the countries that have trees and money.

[Heavy_Equipment]

...is this the part where you tell me Mexico's production is similar to Canada or the US?

You do realize there is more pollution (from industry, and vehicle emissions) coming out of the strip comprising Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hamilton and Toronto, for example than all of Central America right?

And other than Detroit, those aren't even major US industrial centres.

Like it or not, it's time to be accountable for the environment.

I'm an offender from way back, my whole life has been big blocks and diesels.

I just happen to have found my conscience.