Jewish does not mean Israeli

[moon]

European Jewish intellectuals have begun a petition to dissociate themselves from their Israeli counterparts in protest at Israel's current treatment of Palestinians. What do you think ?

[Theophylact]

Not only European Jews.

I'd attach an ad from the Friday, 31 May New York Times, but .pdf isn't a valid file extension here. If anyone wants it, send me an e-mail. The text (minus the signatures, et cetera) follows:

IN THE NAME OF GOD, SEEK PEACE AND PURSUE IT:
An Inter-religious Call to the US Government

The destruction of lives and communities and human dignity now happening in the Middle East besmirches the very Name of God and endangers the peace of the world.

We condemn the deliberate targeting of civilians through suicide bombings. We condemn the totally foreseeable and inevitable deaths of civilians through the shelling and bombing of their neighborhoods.

We condemn the use of violence to pursue political ends.

Whether these various acts of violence are "morally equivalent" or not means little to the dead, the maimed, and their suffering survivors. What matters is to end this violence.

The Israeli and Palestinian peoples seem unable to do so because they are caught up in the fear and rage that has spiraled out of control. For the sake of human decency and for the sake of the peace of the world as a whole, we call on the United States to act.

The immediate present and the future are intertwined so tightly that action by the United States must address both: on the one hand, the immediate violence cannot be ended without swift motion to achieve a solution in which a secure State of Israel and a viable state of Palestine live side by side in peace. On the other hand, that goal cannot be achieved without ending the present violence. Both hands are necessary.

We therefore call on the United States to take two actions at once, and simultaneously:

1. Bring about the creation of an international force to protect both Israelis and Palestinians from violence.

2. Call a regional peace conference including Israel, the Palestinian Authority, and all the Arab states, and peace-committed religious leaders and leaders of civil society in the region, to take up at once the Saudi proposals for regional peace endorsed by the Beirut conference and the peace proposals that came close to agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Authority at Taba late in 2000.

The United States should bend every effort to secure agreement on the emergence of a viable Palestine and a secure Israel, based on the 1967 boundaries with adjustments that the two parties mutually agree on, and on commitments to meet the moral and material needs of the region's refugees while preserving Israel's character as an expression of Jewish peoplehood and Palestine's ability to meet the eep needs of the Palestinian people wherever they live.

Today all the holy places in the Middle East are being desecrated by violence, whether they are under direct attack or not. Only in such a settlement can the holiness of those places be affirmed. Today the Image of God in every human being is being desecrated. Only through such a settlement can the greatness of God be affirmed.

In the Name of God Who is compassionate and just, in the Name of God Who suffers in the suffering of human beings, in the Name of God who demands that we pursue justice through just means and seek peace by actively pursuing it, we call on the United States to act at once.


Initiators: Rev. Bob Edgar, general secretary, National Council of the Churches of Christ; Rev. Jim Wallis, editor, Sojourners; Rabbi Arthur Waskow, Break the Silence.

The Jewish people have been through a lot in the last century. No other peoples have endured/suffered what the Jews went through. This shouldn't happen to anyone, no matter what.

I guess this is why most Jews outside of Israel feel some form of empathy towards the Palestinians. Those in Israel are too close to the problem to react differently.

Jews are an exceptionally intelligent peoples and inspite of what happened in 1933-45, feel outraged at violence.

[MegalosSkylaki]

What happened in 1933 has its root well before 1933 and in Countries other than Germany where the barriers to Jews were sufficintly lowered that Jews had moved into places of influence.

I have a problem with the term 'SUICIDE BOMBER' . The purpose of Suicide is ostensibly self-death.

These are, in fact, HOMOCIDE BOMBERS and the purpose is the death of others -- and should be referred to as such. Their families receive monies after the homocide. It is unlikely that that the groups that sponser and equip homocide bombers , would select either a sociopath who can turn on them, or a seriously mentally-ill person who might be unreliable in the homocidal mission.

And where are the people in those Countries that support these groups who publically sign statements against these homocidal practices ? How long would they live ?

MegalosSkylaki

[osprey4]

I don't disagree with the position of these EU Jews, but surely they realize just about all of those in power in Israel originally came from Europe.

The Jewish people have been through a lot in the last century. No other peoples have endured/suffered what the Jews went through.

Absolutely, but lets also keep in mind that Palestinians were displaced by European Jews in 1948. Not all Palestinians are Islamic militants, most are peaceful, many are Christian. All of them suffer primarily because of lack of leadership.

...we call on the United States to act at once.

With all due respect, what the hell do they think the US has been trying to do?

[Theophylact]

Basically, "homicide bomber" is redundant. The special feature here is that the bomber is willing, even eager, to die in the process. The Kamikaze pilots were often referred to as suicides, without any qualification (in either sense!).

I understand the desire not to confer dignity on murderers, but's let's not mess up the language.

[Epidemic]

Then call them Evil murdering thugs with a death wish.

Also you cannot equate the proud warriors that were the kamakazi with an evil murdering thug. Their targets were military and therefore their actions were not that of a terrorist.

Killing children in an ice cream parlor is completely different from charging a machine gun nest with a sachel charge or flying you airplane into a battle ship. The person who takes out a machine gun nest gets the medal of honor for heroism. The Evil civillian murderer who intentionally attacks women and children deserve to rot in hell (if there is one.)

[Redwolf]

IMHO, If you are to take any side of the middle east, take Israel's. Reason? Palestine sponsors Terrorism. The only reason they don't make it public is because the US and NATO would eat their collective @$$es for breakfast. When John Walsh was on Larry King Live he said that he visited Egypt and serveral other middle eastern countries. When he was there he had a translator that spoke arabic (i think that's what he said). He watched TV as the translator translated a news broadcast for him. It was a speech by Arafat condoning terrorism and spreading hatred agianst jews.

So who do I trust? John Walsh, a man who has devoted his life to tracking down merciless killers and reforming the justice system to work, or a man in the middle east who no-one trusts but his own people and a few other middle eastern countries who no-one else trusts anyway. Belive me, if Arafat really does want to end terrorism in his nation, he'd be doing ALOT more than he is (like let the US and NATO come in and root out the terrorists).

I'm not saying Israel can do no wrong tho. Israel has had their share of atrocities (like the outisng), but there is no excuse for sponsoring terrorists.

Edit- Youre afterthought is correct Epidemic. Terrorists and suicide bombers deserve to rot in hell, no matter what affiliation or religion.

[Theophylact]

If you want to call them "suicide assassins" or "suicide mass murderers", I don't have a problem. My complaint was not with the sentiment, it was with the language. Debasement of language is a step in the degradation of thought. Read George Orwell on "Politics and the English Language":
http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/patee.html

[Epidemic]

Theo,

What about the comments about kamazazi being honorable and not terrorists.


as for the use of the english language there is no redundancy in
Murder bomber.

Homocide - to kill another human
Murder -the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
Bomber - one who bombs.

The term Murder bomber would then mean

a murderer who bombs

It is not like saying he move quickly swiftly.