Anti-Smoking Nazis Strike in Indiana

[Mr. Goodbytes]

I don't smoke, yet I still couldn't help but have alarms go off in my head as I read this morning's paper. One new law I was already aware of, the other was more of a surprise to me.

First of all, the state tax on cigarettes officially jumped 40 cents a pack to 55 cents. Now I'm not sure what the federal tax on cigarettes is, but I'm willing to wager that the combined value of the two taxes more than doubles the cost of each pack. This news comes while Indiana still has yet to get it's act together to approve a state budget that isn't laden with deficits. I suppose that lawmakers just figured that they would shore up some of the shortfalls by sticking it to consumers of tobacco products, as if they aren't taxed enough as it is.

Not to go off on a tangent, but this just started the wheels turning in my head. Basically, lawmakers tax tobacco products with such ferver because they know that smokers are still going to continue to purchase their cigarettes. Raising the tax on cigarettes isn't going to affect demand for them as adversly as a similar price increase would on some other consumable product. Of course all of this is done under the guise of trying to keep our young and innocent children from falling prey to the "evil" tobacco companies. This relationship with price and demand makes me think of prescription drugs. Now, the stocks of pharmaceutical companies are considered to be anti-recession stocks. Basically they are, too, because people will continue to purchase their pills even if the economy slumps because they need those pills to live. Cigarette smokers are either addicted, or just really enjoy the feeling they get when they smoke. Just like the effects of a recession, higher taxes will lower the disposable income of the average person. And just as a person with a lower disposable income will purchase the same ratio of prescription drugs, so will that same person buy just as much nicotine as his body craves regardless of the cost.

Now here's the other half of the equation: I know as well as you do that the reason lawmakers propose increased taxes on cigarettes is not to protect children, it's to rake in more money to make a bigger government. And I'm willing to wager top dollar that if they could find a way to get away with it without ruining their political careers, those same politicians would institute a tax on prescription drugs or even over-the-counter medication.

Oh, almost forgot, the second law to go into effect today is so incredibly innane that it doesn't even require a long rant. It's just that stupid. Notoriously called, the "Flick it and ticket law," motorists can now be hit with up to a $10,000 fine for tossing their spent cigarettes out the window without first putting them out. This fineable offense is also classified as a Class A misdemeanor. Now last time I checked, a Class A misdemeanor in Indiana comes with up to a year in jail. How's that for a slap on the wrists?

*edit*
Noticed I forgot a word... probably forgot more too. Just got off a midnight shift.

[Vanguarde]

Well I think both of these laws are great, because I consider people who smoke a lower class citizen - since they are basically willingly commiting long term suicide. Why not take advantage of them, tax the hell out of them - they will pay they are addicted right?
Also, that flick law is very good. No need for addicts to start massive wildfires because of their oh so greedy habit.
Anything that hurts smokers is for the better in my book.
And I am dead serious.

[Mr. Goodbytes]

Fantastic.... Anyone have some rational thoughts to add to this?

[jman01pa]

Come on now Vanguarde! A lower class citizen? No. If they want to kill themselves, that is their choice. I guess this would make a smoker "Pro Choice" and not "Pro Life". Agreed?

However, I do believe all smokers should wear some kind of device to collect the smoke and recirculate it back into their lungs. As precious as those butts are, I am sure this would be a worthy investment.

How much of a cigarrette is actually absobed into their lungs? They exhale most of it or it burns away while they hold it in their hand. I am sure smokers do not spend thousands of dollars a year each to share those wonderful butts with others.

Why would anyone want to stick something in their mouth called a butt?

[Theophylact]

A sudden large jump in a tax is much more effective in changing behavior than the usual death-by-a-thousand-cuts approach. Double the price of gas, and I bet people'll abandon their sport futility vehicles like fleas diving off a plague-infested rat. Oh, there'll be thirty-eight who actually need them, and there'll be the usual number with bumper stickers reading "You can take my Humungador away when you pry my cold dead hands from the steering wheel," but the rest of us are more or less rational economic creatures when a price differential is sufficiently large for us to notice.

[OuTpaTienT]

Non-smoker here (quit five years ago, never looked back).

And I have to honestly say, the only people I cast judgment on, consider lower class citizens, and also truly fear...are those of Vanguarde's ilk. Those that want to control the actions of others, for whatever sick little mental reason they feel a need to. And if anybody won't fall into line with "their" way of thinking, well then, punish them. Abuse them. Kick them while they're down. Steal their money. It's all ok, after all they are not complete humans...they are "sub-human"...those smokers.

Why not just line'em up and shoot 'em Vanguarde?

Of course you'd probably not have a problem with that, huh? Gee, I wonder why people like Mr. G refer to you anti-smoking types as "Nazis"? Ya know, most people are offended at being called a Nazi. Yet the anti-smokers seem to wear their arm bands with pride.

I don't sleep any better knowing that smokers are being punished for expressing their God given rights of freedom and free choice. Like it or not, people have the right to smoke. Suck it up and deal with it.

Logically I can go along with some of the rational behind restricting smoking in enclosed public areas. As well as increasing penalties for littering or being careless with a lit cigarette. Start strictly enforcing some strong punishments for such actions and you'll see most smokers start being a little more cautious.

But punishing all the smokers because they choose to buy and smoke cigarettes just reeks of a fascist, totalitarian, over-bearing government. And I'll take a little second-hand smoke over a strong-armed big brother any day.

But didn't I say I was a non-smoker? Why do I so strongly disagree with the anti-smoking cult? Because, as a Libertarian, you anti-smoking-lunatic types are my mortal enemies. An individual's right to choose whether or not they smoke is much more important than whether they actually smoke or not. And they should be free to make that choice unburdened from the punishment of over-zealous misguided control-freaks. They will always be subject to the judgment passed on them by said wanna-be little-dictators…but for our government to side with the misguided socialists and pass laws punishing people for choosing to smoke…that's just another step in a very scary direction. Those that don't have the foresight to see it now, I guarantee you will see one day…I just fear that day may come too late.

[Theophylact]

My wife and I are both ex-smokers. We may be the last people in DC who still put out ashtrays for our smoking guests, and don't ask them to step outside into the monsoon or blizzard to light up. When we're in France or Italy we wouldn't dream of asking to be seated in the non-smoking ghetto (with the other Americans).

But just because we're hospitable and civilized doesn't mean we think it's a good idea for people to smoke, any more than our smoking friends do: not a one wouldn't quit if he had his druthers. (Choice of pronoun for grammatical purposes only.)

For some, a financial stimulus will help. For others, a medical threat: when the doctor tells you not to worry about getting emphysema, because you already have it. And some will die smoking through a vent in their oxygen masks.

[Gomer]

Oh, almost forgot, the second law to go into effect today is so incredibly innane that it doesn't even require a long rant. It's just that stupid. Notoriously called, the "Flick it and ticket law," motorists can now be hit with up to a $10,000 fine for tossing their spent cigarettes out the window without first putting them out. This fineable offense is also classified as a Class A misdemeanor. Now last time I checked, a Class A misdemeanor in Indiana comes with up to a year in jail. How's that for a slap on the wrists?

Good deal. They ought to enforce the same penalty at the entrances to buildings and other areas. Hell... not properly disposing them period ought to be punishable. It is sickening how casually a smoker will just drop their trash anywhere they please.

[Knothead]

But punishing all the smokers because they choose to buy and smoke cigarettes just reeks of a fascist, totalitarian, over-bearing government. And I'll take a little second-hand smoke over a strong-armed big brother any day.

RIGHT ON, OuT!!

To anyone missing the point here, this is our government taking yet ANOTHER opportunity to encroach upon our own lives and liberties.

More laws do NOT make us more free!

[caddmannq]

Because, as a Libertarian, you anti-smoking-lunatic types are my mortal enemies. An individual's right to choose whether or not they smoke is much more important than whether they actually smoke or not. And they should be free to make that choice unburdened from the punishment of over-zealous misguided control-freaks. They will always be subject to the judgment passed on them by said wanna-be little-dictators…but for our government to side with the misguided socialists and pass laws punishing people for choosing to smoke…that's just another step in a very scary direction. Those that don't have the foresight to see it now, I guarantee you will see one day…I just fear that day may come too late.

Three cheers, Outpatient! There are all kinds of nazis in this world: tobacco nazis, booze nazis, gasoline nazis, movie nazis, music nazis, abortion nazis...anybody that wants to force their beliefs and opinions upon other people, particularly those of any recognized "group" en masse. I'd just as soon shoot myself in the head as kowtow to any of them.

Unfortunately, in their attempts to promote good habits among young people, our government has stooped to the propagandist tactics of the very people we (as a nation) fought to overcome! We have created our own brand of nazism right here.

Don't give up, young people! The government and (the media) may have trained you to be and think like nazis, but YOU DON"T HAVE TO! Freedom of choice, in America, means freedom to not practice ritual abuse of those you don't like or don't agree with.

Anything that hurts smokers is for the better in my book.

Your book? What book? Mein Kampf? Geezus, Vanguarde! Throw off your nazi mentality before you decide is that what you really like is to hurt other people!