Show Low AZ , and Other Fires

[MegalosSkylaki]

Read today that two fires are converging near Show Low, AZ, a town I vaguely remember being in or near--and when I get home, I hear on the news that it's being evacuated.

According to the Sunday New York Times [front page], the amount of acrerage aflame is twice what it is at this time of year (ten year average).

"The era of the Big Fire is here", I believe Sen Babbit (?) was quoted.

The policy of "knocking down " forest fires was held partly to blame. In nature, there are forest fies--the are usually started by lightening--and this creates Natural Fiewalls of burned timber.

The putting out of fires---whenever and however the occur--has created an "overgrowth" according to this view--of highly imflammable forests, even in arrid ares.

In regard to the present Western Fires, a Prof. at AZU was quoted, "This is the Perfect Storm".

Hope everybody is OK out there.

But I know, when the US Army Coerps of Engineers diverted rivers and created levees, the water just went somewhere else.
In some places, Napa CA I think is one of them, and effort is being made to reverse the "improval on nature".

MegalosSkylaki

Stay safe.

[capybara]

Originally posted by MegalosSkylaki


The policy of "knocking down " forest fires was held partly to blame. In nature, there are forest fies--the are usually started by lightening--and this creates Natural Fiewalls of burned timber.

The putting out of fires---whenever and however the occur--has created an "overgrowth" according to this view--of highly imflammable forests, even in arrid ares.

well i sort of understand this in theory
BUT does this mean we should just let this monster fire burn out of control so as to create a "natural firewall" of burned timber for the future???
Well when should we stop it? when it reaches
tucson? or never?

[MegalosSkylaki]

In natural topography there are A) flood plains B) fire-prone areas; and C) naturally shifting beaches.

With the expansion of human habitation--for economic or for leisure-living reasons-- into thse areas, the need arose for some containment policies.

You are doubtlessly aware that much housing is built in natural flood-plains, for example.

There are two problems with these containment policies: For "probableistic" reasons, levees are built for the vast magority of storm crests. There remains, however, always the "Possibility" of some atypical event breeching this arbitrary level.

The Mississippi has had dykes built along its northern area, only to have surges "move" south. Remember, the water doesn't go away--it just moves somewhere else.

Beach "erosion"--actually a shifting beach-front is Natural. With the advent of expensive beachfront condo's , it became necessary to keep the existing beech "in place".

The forest fires fires that historically have thinned out the forest, became a problem only when people moved into or , more likely, near those areas.

With Human habitation , it indeed became necessary to more aggressively contain those fires--for economic and life-saving reasons. This, however, was done at the cost of increasing the available "fuel" in the form of unburned acreage in otherwise fire-prone areas. The same dilemma as with flood plains and waterfront land.

The only answer I can honestly give you is the unpolitical, oneconomic, and unpopular one of not FUNDING development into naturally adverse adverse areas.

When a flood destoys housing, the Gov't makes lo-cost rebuilding loans. Fund re-building into higher ground areas.

Already, it has become difficult to obtain insuranse on beachfront property in known perrenial "desaster areas".

Remove housing from flood plains and remove the levees. This I believe is being done to the Napa River in Napa Valley CA, where the Army Corps of Engineers--many decades ago ltered the natural flood lines. The Everglades River has also been bought to near extinction by the policy of diversion and drainage.

End the GNMA FNMA funding of construction in known fire-zones and flood plains.

BUT for NOW--of course, everything has to be done to insure the public safety. That means "knocking down" fires out west. Just don't rebuild there. Discourage further development into "natural" danger areas.

In fact, I saw a TV show some time ago that it was the BLM's policy toleave "naturally ocurring" fires alone--and to stop man-made ones. With development, this has become less and less of an option.

Hence, the coming of "the Era of the Big Fire" Sen. Babbit spoke of.

Thank you for your question.

DOOOOG

[fatal xception]

Originally posted by MegalosSkylaki
In natural topography there are A) flood plains B) fire-prone areas; and C) naturally shifting beaches.

Yep, fire prone pretty much describes all of Arizona.

[MegalosSkylaki]

Saw a map of water consumption as a function of (water) precipitation and other sources (i.e. undeground rivers; renewable aquafers).

AZ uses 104% of water; NY 2%.

Clearly water is available in US, but population distribution does not follow it.

Instead, water has been diverted for economic/political reasons.

I believe an aquaduct was built to bring water to Tucsan--from the Colorado River ? But population of Tucson voted to continue use of non-renewable aquafer--because water quality was better.

Isn't Mesa pushing 500,000 by now ?
YIPES ! Visited A(Z)SU in Tempe. Humongo !
AZU has one of the best Psych Depts. in USA now.

DOOOGIVS X TRAVELIVS

P>S> Ever been to Bisbee? Sierra Vista?

Why are there so many fires in this country? I know in India which has a much hotter climate and less water and lot of forests too, forest fires are pretty rare.

[MegalosSkylaki]

Sorry about all the problems in ShowloW and the State's biggest fire .

Err..hope this GIF is the right size,

FatalXception for your err..SENIORSHIP !

Anyhow, saw this on CNN/SCI-TECH

about the Environment .

Anyway, AMTRACK got a reprieve.

Let's hope for some GOOD NEWS.

Like your Graduation.

DOOOOOOG

[MegalosSkylaki]

Why are there so many fires in this country --SHAHANI

1. Lightning
2. Careless people
3. Natural wind tunnels

Also, large areas are kept in reserve by Federal Bureau of Land Management (BLM); a major part of Navada and New Mexico and other States is BLM land.
Perhaps, the seperation of concentration of people vs. concentration of range is a factor. DK.

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOG

[Knothead]

Yosemite Nat'l Park:

For about 25 years now, I have loved this place. Around 1981 (I forget exactly) there was a horrible fire, consuming much of the John Muir Trail and its surrounds. I was very upset about it, but there was nothing I could do. The Park Rangers were, like, "well, it's Nature's way, whatever.." I was FURIOUS! How DARE they take such a cavalier attitude...etc. etc.

It was two years, as it happened, that I was able to visit again. There were huge blackened stumps of trees, fallen blackened rotting timber, really bugged me.

I pulled off a particularly straight burned branch, about 5 feet long and 3" thick, and started grinding it against some rocks to smooth it out (I was really agitated at the damage I was looking at.)

My hiking companions, meanwhile, (who were much more versed in trees than I was) were examining the ground, and after awhile, showed me how new forests are born....

Little green shoots, nurtured in the rich, carbonized earth, replicating a cycle almost unknown to man, (because of our relatively short lifespans) but well-known to the Forest...eons and eons of continuity and struggle...the Forest, and the Earth, demands not our participation...it doesn't need our approval.

We come and go... The Forest is eternal.


Sorry for the bad poetry, but it's what I finally learned about it. Okay.

And I still have that branch, it's my walking stick!






Be well, MDS

[MegalosSkylaki]

The trees in the Redwoods that have survived cenyuries and grown to enormous sizes have developed some fire-retardant substance in their bark.

Examination provides a history of recurrant fires. Over centuries.

* *

The great discovery of Existentialism: Man is anti-Natural.

It is called Consciousness.
It is also called despoiling the Earth.

DOOOGIVS X ARBORIVS

P.S. The CNN article I LINKED above states that the need for Renewal is presently 1.2 times the rate of consumption of these resources.