Lets 'Philosophasise'

[ClubMed]

I was wondering the other day, if humanity could be better off without 'money'. If we could somehow convince everyone, not to work and produce in order to accumulate wealth, but in order to improve their lives and the lives of those around them, and, in order to advance humanity as a whole?.

Is that possible, of would there be no drive anymore to do anything?.

Could that allow us to break free of certain limitations that we may have laid upon ourselves, or would that create new limitations?

Example:
Major missions into outter space would be possible (providing we have the materials and the know-how), limitations such as "It costs too much and we don't have the funds" would be eliminated.

Or massive projects to turn desert land into usable farm land?.

The above could only be possible of course if the people could be convinced to work for 'free'.

Maybe I just shouldn't drink too much Red Bull ?...

Red Bull is bad for you man. Especially seven in one night.

Anyhow, the gains from such a revalation in society could be enourmous. Unfortunately man, as a creature, is self-centered and greedy. For a an individual to realize that the betterment of society could ultimate better his own place would be pretty amazing. I can think to myself that it would be a great great world, but at the end of the day, I'll still put in an hour of overtime, for the cash, and then race someone to the store to get the last copy of Morrowind. And on a whole, most people will do the same.

Humans aren't a communal creature. We could learn a lot from certain animal cultures (ants, termintes, bees). However even those societies need a leader and when you put a man (subject to greed) in charge, things will almost certainly develop from your ideal Utopia to a dictatorship. "Take a mortal man, put him in control, watch him become a god, watch people's heads a-roll."

It's not easy to argue things like this on a discussion board I think either, as opions and arguments tend to change as the arguments progress for most people.

As for this society resulting in a lack of drive for improvement, I seriously doubt that. There are always people that want to know more, and want to be able to do more with what we know. Great discoveries are usually made when great people cooperate. We could move farther and faster in this ideal society.

BTW, the deserts are probably there for a reason, maybe turning them into useable farm land isn't a good idea?

Just my narrow opinion (hoping to be expanded by further replies).

-Whir

[osprey4]

Originally posted by clubmed
The above could only be possible of course if the people could be convinced to work for 'free'.

Been tried. Didn't work.

The problem is this little thing called human nature. People need incentive. Some need more, others need less.

John

[Epidemic]

It has been tried and it works for several small groups. Usually tribal in nature. The higest order of this lifestyle as far as I am concerned are the omish. They have made it to the early industrial age.

I have trouble seeing this from a completely communal perspective. I am a capitalist. The world is capitalist even in communist countries at least socialist. To work for nothing hmmmmmmmmm.


That am a tuffy. History of all successful communal efforts seemed to leave people somewhere around the 18th century life style. Could you get such a world to work together to explore space. I would think not as there probably would be no apparent need to do the exploration . In a communal life style there is little innovation beyond what is needed to provide food water and shelter.

Cat scans, airplanes, cars. I believe that technology spawns out of necessity. Only a few things drive necessity in my book survival in war, survival from famine, survival from the elements. When necessity no longer is the most difficult goal then comes free time leisure and time to ponder the universe.


In theory it could work but I believe it is against human nature. There are those who eek out a living from the earth and those who see them eeking and decide it is easier to hit them over the head to get their food. Thems the two types of humans. In capitalism the ones who hit you on the head are at the bottom of the ladder and the top. The middle is just there to be thumped.

[Warthog]

Isn't that basically what communism was? Everyone was equal?

IMO, a planet following that life style would be like another culture completely. I dunno.....I'm not into the deep thinking......this is The Matrix all over again...what'd the Agent say? They tried to make a perfect society but it didn't work.

Warthog

[ClubMed]

No, I am not talking about making everyone equal, I am wondering if our 'reasons' for living, working and existing could be altered.

I am also not going to even attempt to define a 'perfect' environment.

What I am wondering is if this would cause society to become more efficient and speed up our advancement.

[Knothead]

Fun thread, CM

Back in 1984, there was this marvelous little film called "The Gods Must Be Crazy". It portrayed an African village, where everyone shared common goals and everything else. There was no money involved with these people, since everything belonged to everybody.

What sets the story into motion is, this pilot throws a coke bottle out of the window of his small airplane. Well, one of the villagers finds it and it's like the most wonderful thing they've ever seen! It has millions of uses, and everybody starts squabbling among themselves for it. It gets so bad that our hero decides it's evil, and that it must be returned to the "Gods".

Anyway, these people had a non-monetary society, but without the incentive of economic gain, there is little progress in technology. (This coke bottle was the most hi-tech thing they'd ever seen! ) I suggest this film was a pretty good model of how things would be if the concept of money/barter wasn't around.

Socialistic systems don't seem to go anywhere. Or perhaps a little socialism can go a long way!

[Warthog]

Knot - that's what I was thinking, primitive life without man's need for success (and I guess what goes with that usually - ) greed.

[Epidemic]

I think Greed is a misused term, Or at least over used. People say that I am greedy because I do not want to support people who do not want to work. I do not feel compelled to try and assist someone who is not trying. I do not mind giving leg ups though.

Greed is not me wanting to hord money for future generations of my kin. In an attempt to make their lives easier. My definition of greed is the taking of money at any costs.

But back on topic. Is technology the way to improve the human condition. Does each advancement really improve the quality of life. Did the car and the TV really make the world a better place.

Yes there is less famine in developed nations. But I have seen shows on amazon tribes barely touched by modern day. If you live in the right part of the world life aint too bad without technology. This one tribe I saw they smiled and laughed and had hours of free time each day. But you had the satisfaction of hunting the local game and making your own shelter. I may be nastalgic or unrealistic but some times I think of pulling up stakes and moving away from the world to a equatorial location where food falls from the trees. I would like penicillin though and a few other modern conviniences machette and such.

Instead of typing here and figuring how to handle the traffic the company predicts with out them providing any capital to build the cellular networl out. I could be eeking a living from the earth.

Not that it would be easy but tribal living has a close nit reliance on other hard working individuals for the common goal. But there probably will never be an intel or enterprise in a world of tribal existance.

[ClubMed]

I would like penicillin though and a few other modern conviniences machette and such.

What if people could somehow be convinced to make such inventions and findings for the good of humanity, for pride, for the advancement of all of us as a whole?

And don't get me wrong, I do not believe that this is possible at the moment, just wondering..

(penicillin..brings back nightmares, I am allergic to it )