Iraq, Oil, and the Mideast

[ILC]

Alright, I can no longer sit back and not voice my opinion.

Its time for the United States stops joking around and let the WORLD know that we mean business. Hussein's statement today that he will terminate exporting oil for one month is the last straw.

This man, and this country needs to be taken out, and now. How much longer will we sit around for? We see him paying $25000 to suicide bombers in Israel, we have watched/let him devolop WMD, and countles other things, and now he wants to not sell Oil for one month to the western world, and is urging other Middle Eastern countries to do the same. It is time for him, and his regime to completely disappear off the face of this earth.

It is time for us to unite behind Israel, take out all the militant islamic groups, AND Iraq, and ignore "worldly" opinion.

There will be no peace in the middle east until these things come about. It has become VERY evident that Islamic Militant groups do not want peace, but to rather kill as many non-muslums as possible. Arafat, Insane, and most other middle eastern leaders seem to support this also, and for those that do, erradicate them also.

Now, this raises the thought by the world that we will have to do this alone. Well, if we do, so be it. We have proven time and time again that we will come out victorious, that we are capable of being victorious, and teh resolve of the American populous is one that has never had an equal to in history. If no one in the middle east grants us permision to use their countires to launch atacks from, thats fine, we send our fleets over, clear a space, drop in the Army Corps of Engineers, 4 days later we have a fully functioing airport to launch strikes from. And for those that are reading that believe that we cant win by ourselves.......wake up and take a look at American History.

Another point that this would bring up, is that it would split America, and possibly cause what is happening over there, to come here. Well, yes it could, but I guarantee we, the American people, will not sit around and let this happen.

And now we come to oil. Well if it wouldnt have been for the environmentalists and liberals, we wouldnt have to worry about this. I have been a hunter for several years, and I have spent many a winter day out in the woods hunting, and I have NEVER seen any animal run into something. They ALWAYS go around what is in their way, and this same concept goes to oil fields in Alaska. It will NOT interupt their mating routes, they will simply go around the oil rigs. Also, Alaska has 1000's of square miles of tundra, our oil rigs would basically be the equivalent of a grain of sand on a foot ball field. And one last thing, it is now believed that the Gulf of Mexico has the worlds largest oil supply under it.
It is time to stop letting OPEC and the middle eastern countires yank us around, we have to open up the Alaskan oil field, explore the gulf, and find alternate methods of energy, and we must do it NOW.

It is time that we stop hiding behind politics and wordly views, and do what is needed for a peaceful future, and a stronger America.

ILC

[KAknight]

Here we go again...

OK I'm taking bets.
3:1 - halfway through page # 5 this is closed.



No offense to you ILC. Though these threads always start with good intentions, they usually end up turning ugly.

[ClubMed]

I understand where you are coming from ILC, but unfortunately the points you discuss are much more complex and require complex methods of solving.

Look at Israel. At the moment Sharon thinks he's a winner, the attacks have stopped. But wait until the Israeli troops pull out. There are very tragic days coming for the Israeli civilians. And they can thank Sharon when these days come.

As for the oil, Iraqi oil belongs to Iraq, they should be able to sell it to whom they choose. Just like America decides who can buy its technology (military, medical, nuclear etc..).

As for removing Sadam, yes I agree, but who is going to do it and how? How many victims will there be?

As for what you call Islamic terrorist groups. It all depends what side your on. To many they are groups resisting the Israeli (illegal) occupation.

As a side note. Today on Al Jazeera I hear that a new resistance group has been formed in the Palestinian territories in response to recent Israeli actions. This time its a Christian group.

As for the problems in the Middle Eastern countries, they are multifaceted and have both internal and external factors. They require time and effort. Quick hasty moves are dangerous.

Again to many, Arafat is not insane. He may not be the best option for the Palestinians (due to his weakness). But they stand fully behind him while that blood thirsty Sharon (Sabra & Shatila) is in power.

If you had access to Arab TV and media, and if you could view the 'other side' of things. I am sure you would have a different opinion.

I have access to both western and Middle Eastern media. And I tell you I see things that hurt me and sadden me so much, on both sides! It is heart wrenching. I could never call these groups of resistance terrorists, because I understand and see what they are fighting. At the same time I understand why you and others call them terrorist.

There are 2 sides to any story, and often we only see one of them. Especially in the often biased and ill informed media around the world.

So as said in the opening statement, I understand where you are coming from. but cannot agree with any of your points.

[caddmannq]

CM: Just as a side note...

How biased is the Arab media? Don't most of these countries have rule-by-fear dictators in power? Don't those same dictators control the region's Arab-language media? Is there any unbiased reporting on either side?

[ClubMed]

Yes very true, there is a lot of biased media in the Arab world due to the reasons you suggest.

However there are still a number of independent sources that have survived by moving out of the Arab world to escape prosecution when they report about the regimes.

However, most regimes only complain, censor and shut down the media when they are the center of attention. Also, since Israel is an enemy they go so far as to support and fund the media to help them find out all the little nasty bits that the Israelis would rather have ignored and hidden. Often these are the very news articles that never make it to the west where critisizing Israel too much is a big tabu.

Otherwise they control the media no more than their western counter parts.

Al Jazeera is a surprising exception to the rule, they are a very powerful and balanced source. The CNN of the Middle East so to say, they are my primary source of info on the happenings in the Middle East and especially Palestine.

Thanks for bringing this up, a good point.

[Warthog]

*yawn*

Everyone is biased in some way or another.

[Toadman]

Yeah, some are biased enough to wear explosive belts and cowardly take out innocent women and children at the mall. Ends justify the means, right?

Still don't see Israeli children holding up guns and flashing victory signs like the AP press this morning in a show of solidarital hate. How complex is that? How much can the truth be distorted and twisted to serve one's own agenda? Go ahead.. tell me it was photo-shopped, doctored, and a product of Israeli/Western media propaganda and Jewish slant, along with every other lie some Arabs spew to futhur their agendas. The more things change, the more they stay the same...centuries upon centuries.

There is no Right, there is no Wrong, there is only opinion according to you. I weep for you and your people, raised and trained for absolute hatred of those not of the Faith. They are a doomed civilization, loved by no-one, including other Arab countries perfectly able to accept them, yet prefer to martyr them and make Israel a scapegoat. The Hatred.. the Anger, the lack of compromise or Saudi-arranged peace treaty acceptance, and the burning desire to KILL is so strong in you to exterminate Jews. The world knows your agenda as well. How come NATO isn't assisting the Pals like Bosnian refugees? Oh.. sorry the USA runs NATO, right?



And FYI - I'm a 3rd-party filthy Infidel/Gentile, neither Jew nor Muslim, but I know, see and smell crap when I see it, before you lump me in with your ingrained ability to sniff out and dismiss Zionist posts as irrelevant.

[Atomic Rooster]

Something to ponder:
Over the past 30+ years of middle east conflict, there have been 10 Israeli Prime Ministers and 7 US Presidents. The one consant figure in the middle of all this has been Yassir Arafat.

clubmed is correct. Arafat is not insane. He just wants to eliminate the entire Israeli/Jewish population.

[krusty the klown]

If no one in the middle east grants us permision to use their countires to launch atacks from, thats fine, we send our fleets over, clear a space, drop in the Army Corps of Engineers, 4 days later we have a fully functioing airport to launch strikes from.

Would you have minded if we'd have done the same to sort out IRA terrorist fundraisers that were harboured in the US?

I recall that it took more than two decades for the US Govt to 'outlaw' the IRA (whatever 'outlaw' is supposed to mean exactly)

[krusty the klown]

It is time to stop letting OPEC and the middle eastern countires yank us around, we have to open up the Alaskan oil field, explore the gulf, and find alternate methods of energy, and we must do it NOW.

MY GOD! IT'S A MIRACLE!! I CAN SEE!!!

But, but, but... I thought it was your inalienable God-Given right to cheap gas? The 'who are you to tell me... etc?' crew??

Would this mean that perhaps attempting to achieve energy independence through alternative technology would actually improve freedom for the average US citizen, rather than being had by the short & curlies by OPEC (which seems to be *cough* some US citizens' definition of 'freedom')

Could you possibly be seeing that subsidising the cost of gas (the cost of gas does not include the military cost of 'operations' in the middle east) and driving inefficient vehicles (and actively preventing the technology required to considerably improve fuel consumption) is ACTUALLY A BAD THING for the average US citizen??

(But it's my God-Given.... we fought for our freedom.... it's unconstitutional...)

Go on Saddam! Turn the taps off!! I hope they ALL turn the taps off for a month. Perhaps then, we can realise how ridiculous this situation has become with oil. Hopefully, we (and I say 'we', because this affects us all) can pull pur heads out of our a$$es and actually develop some sensible policies from this, because history WILL repeat itself unless we do. Hopefully Dubya will see that, too. Hopefully, he will tell the car manufacturers and the oil companies to do what the fcuk he says and get the technology implemented NOW, or get out of business. Hopefully, he will ignore their bleatings about how much the technology will cost, because if some pi$$ant little country like this can do it, then sure as h3ll, the mighty US can foot the bill. And no, I'm not talking about some snake-oil greater than unity energy source, I'm talking about technology that is available here and now... today, but technology that is being actively blocked by the interested parties who benefit greatly from the use of inefficient vehicle technology

*sigh* but alas, I fear that the West will go in, kick a$$, maintain its' cheap oil, keep running the guzzlers, keep financing 'rogue states' etc. etc. etc. There're just too many interested parties, too much money involved & the machine's gathered too much momentum that the only way it'll stop is when the wells run dry

Woah, is the soapbox that far down???