»
 

Go Back   ResellerRatings Store Ratings > ResellerRatings Forums > Off Topic Community

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-06-2002, 06:12 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
krusty the klown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Leeds Liverpool Canal
Posts: 1,774
krusty the klown is on a distinguished road
Free trade... when it suits us

Way to go Dubya!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_...00/1857163.stm

What exactly is the point of free trade?

__________________
Can I play haemorrhoid sufferer number 1? Oooh! Aaah! Oh, that hurts! Is there no relief?

No.

What about the after guy? Oh, that's better! I can ride a bike again!
krusty the klown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 06:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Daft_Ghosty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: South Cackolacky (aka South Carolina)
Posts: 3,410
Daft_Ghosty is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Daft_Ghosty Send a message via AIM to Daft_Ghosty
good lord.. can't let Bush out alone by himself.. I bet he would stick a penny into a power socket, if left unwatched..

American steel is ok.. but overseas steel is better.. I collect knifes a little bit.. and can tell u.. I like german steel over american steel anyday. Is Bush trying to get the world against America?
__________________
In life one must Chill
Daft_Ghosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 08:17 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
desmocat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: D-Fw Texas
Posts: 695
desmocat is on a distinguished road
Daft, what is being discussed is structural steel products, not little stuff like knives and such.

The company that I used to work for is the #2 steel producer in the U.S and we never went crying to the government about imports.
You know why? It's because we were an efficent producer and based our costs on even if offshore producers made their beams and shapes for free, they still have to pay freight to get it here, and we always managed to stay right around that number for our production costs.
We saw a loooong time back that if the company were to survive, we would have to be THE low cost producer.
I attended a steelmaking conference in 1988 and our CEO was a speaker, and during one of his speaches, he said,"ok, lose all the tarriffs, forget subsidies, we can compete in an open market"

Well, that brought much wailing and gnashing of teeth from the likes of all the reps from U.S steel, Bethleham, LTV, and the like.
The main targets of the tarriffs are/were the Korean steel and some of the Eastern European producers who are dumping products here at a cost that is less than what it takes for them to make it.
I agree that if you can't be efficent, you either get efficent, or you die. For a while, believe it or not, we were the ONLY steel plant that was EXPORTING steel to Japan. We also had agreements with some British producers to supply some of our size ranges when the market was booming a few years back and couldn't make enough to supply the demand.

We also had an agreement with Mexican Rebar producers to be a broker for their products here in the states to control the amount of steel they sent across the border. It's a prime example of "if ya can't beat 'em, join 'em"
Instead of crying to the government for tarriffs and restrictions, we had an agreement to buy from them and sell it at a price that was profitable for both parties.

If you dig deep enough, you will probably find that those who pushed this tarriff crap are the big dinosaurs of the industry who don't wan't modernize and will soon fall by the wayside if they don't.
The last numbers that I saw, it took the big integrated producers something like 8 man hours per ton to make steel. The Japanese were doing it at about 4 man hours/ton.
Our man hours/ton?.............1

There will always be a need for some integrated producers to make the raw steel from iron ore and produce some of the larger sizes, but the majority of the U.S market is served by the scrap based "mini-mills" that are by and large much more efficent than the large producers.
www.chaparralsteel.com
desmocat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 08:45 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,539
ClubMed is on a distinguished road
This has been going on for quite a while, the EU complained to the WTO and as far as I can remember it won the case.

It is very understandable that the US government and the Bush administration want, and need to protect their national markets and producers. Fair enough.

But, imposing high tarrifs on imports is not the way to go. Especially when it goes against international law.

Some people might say to hell with international law. Thats not so easy because the USA like nearly every country on earth has signed agreements to accept, respect and implement these laws, (and this was done a long time ago).

IMO opinion an effort at making the local producers more efficient would be a better way to go, maybe also a monetary injection to help them become efficient faster.

This casts a rather negative light on the Bush administration, making it seem like they ignore laws and regulations when it suits them.

But to be fair, with a relatively weaker economy and a lingering depression, the options are limited for the time being.
ClubMed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 10:58 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 396
NoCtrl is on a distinguished road
It is my understanding that the US stayed within the guidelines of the WTO. Tariffs are only on those countries that are not competing fairly. I listened to a government representative on the radio this morning explaining the situation. It is temporary and sounded like a reasonable compromise. I think President Bush is doing a great job. If your not going to play fair, we'll take the steps we need to under WTO guidelines to level the playing field.
__________________
Location: Outside looking in.
NoCtrl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 11:16 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 34
LabbaLabba is on a distinguished road
They (the BBC) reckon it won't affect the UK's diminishing steel industry. And that it is targetted more at Asian economies....
That's it George....keep the "Third World" poor!!!
LabbaLabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 01:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,539
ClubMed is on a distinguished road
I must disagree NoCntrl. I have been reading quite a bit about this issue and I have come to the simple conclusion that the wrong path has been chosen to fix the problem.

As stated before, the roots of the problem lie within US boundaries. Many of the US steel producers are simply not productive or efficient enough. They need to restructure, it's as simple as that.

To claim that other countries are not playing fair is simply an illegitimate attempt at justifying the course of action that has been chosen. You will hear a lot from government representatives in the coming days and weeks. I fail to see any truth in it.
ClubMed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 02:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
korgul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: York, PA.
Posts: 1,326
korgul is on a distinguished road
Ok club where was the IMF when our economy was hiting the skids. they were not helping us. But as soon as one of the other countries start to take a skid they we are to bail them out. I agree with Bush's stand on this. It is high time that the USA start doing stuff for itself and forget about what the rest think. In the past it was always no we cant do that they might think bad of us.

Way to go bush keep it up.

korgul
korgul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 03:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,539
ClubMed is on a distinguished road
korgul I hope your not comparing the minor problems the USA had with what happened in Argentina? IMO two completely different situations, 1 a super power that is recovering after a few months, the other, a normal country that will suffer from what happend for years to come.

I agree with you on point though, yes it is high time that the USA does something for itself. The high tarrifs will not keep the steel producers from being unproductive and inefficient. It would be in your countries best interest to actually help those weak firms to find out where they are going wrong and to do something about it.

Because once the high tariffs are droped the national steel producers will suffer losses again since no one bothered to solve the problem in the first place.

The high tariffs are only going to delay the final blow. Why not solve the problem right away and everyone will be happy again making profiits.

Blaming the problems on outsiders is far from the truth in this case.

I hope you see where I'm coming from.
ClubMed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 03:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Warthog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Fort Myer, VA
Posts: 5,009
Warthog is on a distinguished road
CM why don't you become a politician...because your wonderful ideas are of no use to average joe on this message board...
Warthog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Most Active Discussions

Recent Discussions

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:07 PM.