WTF !

[MegalosSkylaki]

Never used those letters before.

But here we have what is reputedly the "biggest offensive" in the Afganastan Conflict and this late in the struggle, the U.S. and Afgahn forces get the short end against Al Queda/Taliban.

Reminds me of a movie I don't want to be remainded OneAmericanSoldierTwoAfghansKilled.

Intel, huh !

DOOOG

[MegalosSkylaki]

The was an article in a local tabloid The Post which made references to the absence of heavy armored vehecles such as the 70 ton Abrams tank that can only be airlifted one at a time.

The article draw an unseemly analogy with the events in 'Black Hawk Down' where the lack of approproriate equipment contributed to the disasterous outcome to our soldiers.

I hope this is only tabloid journalism and not history repeating itself.

DOOOG

[vass0922]

you'd think that of all things, in war we'd learn from our past so that they do not occur again. However, when it comes to resources and politics we will unfortunately see these occurences again

[Richard Cranium]

Just keep in mind here that durning times of war, the US Govt uses "DisInformation" regarding all aspects of the conflict to keep everyone confused.

The only ones who know the actual circumstances are those who are "On a Need-To-Know Basis" the rest of the world can only guess as to the actual happenings.

Even the Ham Radio Operators broadcasting from locations near the conflicts cannot be postive of the validity of their info.

[Warthog]

Apache helicopters from the 101st, which is based at the Kandahar airport in southern Afghanistan, came under small arms fire while supporting ground troops. The choppers did a "devastating" job against enemy fighters, military sources told CNN.

Sweet...that would be cool to fly one of those someday...

I don't see how this is related to the story of Black Hawk Down?

This is out in the middle of nowhere, we have troops (dunno how many) and 500 Afghani soldiers....that's a lot more than the 100 in Somalia stuck in the middle of a hell hole city.....plenty of air support from armored Apache attack helicopters...the only attack choppers in Somalia were not even "real" attack choppers, the Little Birds, which can easily be shot down (no armor) and carry a limited amount of weaponry.

Warthog

[SEALTEAMTHREE]

Actually, the little birds are quite handy, and very well armed (two 7.62 MM miniguns, capable of 6000 rounds/min cyclic). You can land the things in the middle of a street, and they're too fast and too small to be shot down by some gang thug with a soviet RPG. An apache is designed to be a tank killer, and seeing as how the Somalis didn't have any armored vehicles, and how much an apache costs, it was pointless to commit them to battle. They only have the advantage when they can follow the terrain in, staying below the horizion and then popping up at the last minute to loose a couple of missiles and then pop back out of view. When you're flying in a city, you can't do that.

[MegalosSkylaki]

The Post , Jack Kelly, attributes this to a internal conflict between "light" and "heavy" communities within the Army.

"It ought to be a doctrine that once light forceshave seized an airport, where we plan to stay awhile, that the Army fly in some armor to protect...the force"

However, Kelly tends to underestimate the difficulties of lifting a company of Ambrams (M1A2) tanks with one (?) suitable plane and sending tanks shipboard via Pakastan might further destabalize that situation.

They were used, however, in Albania--which is not exactly a flat plain--during the Kosovo Conflict and there are other tanks in the Army's arsenal.

Ironically, fear of another Somalia--and considerations of "world opinion"(Yuchh)-- may have led our Government to take an extremly cautious stance. This may only backfire if quabbleing Afghan forces , backed by American light infantry, are faced with an unexpectedly strong force.

DOOOG

P.S. Everybody, as I said I hope that this is only tabloid journalism and not the "true facts". But nothing has come out to contradict the CNN article about an unexpectedly strong enemy force--unfortunately.

The "reminder" was troops being sent into a worse situation than they were expecting.

[Warthog]

What I meant was that in comparison to other attack choppers like the Apache and Cobra (no longer in use by active Army), the 'Bird doesn't carry nearly as much armament. Sure, Hellfire's would be pointless against no armored targets....but quad loads of rockets?

Of course fast deployment of our armor was the best solution to what happened in Somalia....I was more so comparing what's happening over in Afghan. now, versus what happened in Somalia (weapons, tactics, terrain, etc.).

Warthog

Hey, Wart, you looking to join the armed forces, judging by your level of interest?

[MegalosSkylaki]

Don't razz Wart ! He's the Man ! Errr..the Hog !

The misunderstanding may have stemmed from my mentioning that movie.

The point is that it seems by reading Sundays papers that the war on the ground is not over. I mean it's not a "mopping-up" operation but a significant and organized Enemy force is still in the field.

Damned shame.

DOOOG