Sad day if any of this is true...

[Gomer]

Though I am not surprised.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...ook/index.html

About two weeks before deciding to invade Iraq, President Bush was told by CIA Director George Tenet there was a "slam dunk case" that dictator Saddam Hussein had unconventional weapons, according to a new book by Washington Post journalist Bob Woodward.

That declaration was "very important" in his decision making, according to "Plan of Attack," which is being excerpted this week in the Post.

Bush also made his decision to go to war without consulting Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld or Secretary of State Colin Powell, Woodward's book says.

Powell was not even told until after the Saudi ambassador was allowed to review top-secret war plans in an effort to enlist his country's support for the invasion, Woodward reports.

The book also reports that in the summer of 2002, $700 million was diverted from a congressional appropriation for the war in Afghanistan to develop a war plan for Iraq.

Woodward suggests the diversion may have been illegal -- and that Congress was deliberately kept in the dark about what had been done.

Woodward quotes Bush as saying he did not feel the need to ask his principal advisers, including Cheney, Rumsfeld and Powell, whether they thought he ought to go to war because "I could tell what they thought."

Woodward describes Cheney as the "steamrolling force" behind the decision to go to war, supported by Rumsfeld.

Powell opposed it. Powell and Cheney have such a hostile relationship that they barely speak, Woodward writes.

Woodward reports that on November 21, 2001 -- about three months after the September 11 attacks and shortly after the Taliban regime crumbled in Afghanistan -- Bush took Rumsfeld aside, ordered him to develop a war plan for Iraq and told him to keep it secret.

Eight months later, in late July 2002, the president approved spending $700 million for Iraq war planning, which was taken from a supplemental appropriation for the war in Afghanistan, according to Woodward.

Diverting money appropriated by Congress for one purpose to another use was legally questionable, the author told CBS.

Subsequently, on January 11, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Richard Myers met in Cheney's office with Prince Bandar, the Saudi ambassador to the United States.

At that meeting, Myers showed Prince Bandar a map labeled "top secret noforn," meaning that it was not to be seen by any foreign national, Woodward told CBS.

The map outlined the U.S. battle plan for Iraq, which was to begin with an air attack, followed by land invasions moving north from Kuwait and south from Turkey, according to the book.

Two days after the meeting with Bandar, on January 13, Bush met with Powell in the Oval Office to inform his chief diplomat that he had decided to go to war.

"You know you're going to be owning this place?" Powell is reported as telling Bush, cautioning him that the United States would be assuming the responsibility for the postwar situation.

Bush told Powell that he understood the ramifications, Woodward said.

Despite his reservations about the policy, Powell told the president he would support him, deciding that it would be "an unthinkable act of disloyalty" to both Bush and U.S. troops to walk away at that point, according to Woodward.

Too bad about Powell... I always liked that guy, never really understood what he was doing running with the riff-raff in the current administration.

[Atomic Rooster]

*Deleted*


GroundZero3

[Gomer]

Did you have anything of value to add to this discussion AR?

[Atomic Rooster]

*Deleted*


GroundZero3

[John Prophet]

I think the plan to invade Iraq goes back at LEAST as far as 1992 in the last days of Bush senior....I cant think of the name of the paper that P Wolfowitz wrote..but I think basically the case was being made back then. Something along the lines of "if we (America) dont reshape the world in our image..it will reshape us in its image". I believe the paper is clearly showing that the US needed a presence in the middle east and Iraq was looked at as possibly the easiest place to get into.

wolfowitz

you need to think of these things in terms of strategy...not tactics..strategy being more or less "long term plans"..Wolfowitz is a strategy guy..concerned with long term goals http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1564448.stm


---

By the way I am not saying I agree or disagree with any of this...just saying what I think their thinking was even back to 1992ish.

check the links here http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.pht...Paul_Wolfowitz

I think you will see Wolfowitz' fingerprints on many of Bush's policies

also http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../etc/wolf.html

JP

[Pexster]

I thought this excerpt from 60 Minutes was extremely interesting --

But, it turns out, two days before the president told Powell, Cheney and Rumsfeld had already briefed Prince Bandar, the Saudi ambassador.

”Saturday, Jan. 11, with the president's permission, Cheney and Rumsfeld call Bandar to Cheney's West Wing office, and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Gen. Myers, is there with a top-secret map of the war plan. And it says, ‘Top secret. No foreign.’ No foreign means no foreigners are supposed to see this,” says Woodward.

“They describe in detail the war plan for Bandar. And so Bandar, who's skeptical because he knows in the first Gulf War we didn't get Saddam out, so he says to Cheney and Rumsfeld, ‘So Saddam this time is gonna be out, period?’ And Cheney - who has said nothing - says the following: ‘Prince Bandar, once we start, Saddam is toast.’"

After Bandar left, according to Woodward, Cheney said, “I wanted him to know that this is for real. We're really doing it."

But this wasn’t enough for Prince Bandar, who Woodward says wanted confirmation from the president. “Then, two days later, Bandar is called to meet with the president and the president says, ‘Their message is my message,’” says Woodward.

Prince Bandar enjoys easy access to the Oval Office. His family and the Bush family are close. And Woodward told 60 Minutes that Bandar has promised the president that Saudi Arabia will lower oil prices in the months before the election - to ensure the U.S. economy is strong on election day.

Woodward says that Bandar understood that economic conditions were key before a presidential election: “They’re [oil prices] high. And they could go down very quickly. That's the Saudi pledge. Certainly over the summer, or as we get closer to the election, they could increase production several million barrels a day and the price would drop significantly.” [emphasis added]

My prediction? We will hear again from some that because Woodward's book publisher is owned by the same conglomerate that owns CBS this somehow taints his account.

[Epidemic]

President Bush was told by CIA Director George Tenet there was a "slam dunk case" that dictator Saddam Hussein had unconventional weapons,

Does this mean that Bush did not lie??? interesting

[Chuckiechan]

I must have missed the point. Iraq was shooting at out planes, ingnoring the UN mandates about inspections. It seems now they Saddam may have shipped them into Syria.

Who really cares, other than the purists who hate Bush and would rather wait until our enemies are too strong for us to attack. They days of waiting until we are attacked are gone. At least until GWB is out of office.

I wish the election were tomorrow.

[Gomer]

Bob Woodward on Larry King Live now... it'll be the first time I have ever watched the show. Curious to see what he has to say. Both of them. I dunno what Larry King is all about.

Bush also made his decision to go to war without consulting Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld or Secretary of State Colin Powell, Woodward's book says.

He did consult Powell, that's why Powell was at the UN.
Why should he go back to him once he has Powell's opinion?
He asked and received Powell's advice and chose to not follow it after the way the UN responded to him.
If you ask 3 friends for advice and they give it, but you chose to not follow Mikes advice when you make your decision. Why would you go back to Mike again and go over it? You are responsible for the decision and you know Mikes take on it.

Woodward quotes Bush as saying he did not feel the need to ask his principal advisers, including Cheney, Rumsfeld and Powell, whether they thought he ought to go to war because "I could tell what they thought."
Good grief, It would take someone pretty obtuse to not know what someone thought about a subject they had talked about at length. He knew their opinions. Why should he have to go and ask permission? We hired President Bush to make decisions not wring his hands and repeatedly ask people what to do..

Subsequently, on January 11, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Richard Myers met in Chaney's office with Prince Bandar, the Saudi ambassador to the United States.

At that meeting, Myers showed Prince Bandar a map labeled "top secret noforn," meaning that it was not to be seen by any foreign national, Woodward told CBS.

The map outlined the U.S. battle plan for Iraq, which was to begin with an air attack, followed by land invasions moving north from Kuwait and south from Turkey, according to the book.

So? what's your point? If I had war plans for a house next door to you and was going to bomb your neighbor I would let you know what was going on, if you were my Allie and include you in the plans. Other wise I'd let you wonder if you were not my Allie.,

Prince Bandar enjoys easy access to the Oval Office. His family and the Bush family are close. And Woodward told 60 Minutes that Bandar has promised the president that Saudi Arabia will lower oil prices in the months before the election - to ensure the U.S. economy is strong on election day.

Hmm I think I'll believe what the white house says in reply to this instead of someone obviously hostile to Republicans and an agenda to sell books.

I think the plan to invade Iraq goes back at LEAST as far as 1992 in the last days of Bush senior....

I'm sure we have a plan to invade Canada so? What the heck does the Pentagon do? I would hope keep things up to date so we do have plans for various senarios.... oh my gosh I have the funniest comment here that I can't post because it could be a construed as a dig.. I'm LOF ...

"You know you're going to be owning this place?" Powell is reported as telling Bush, cautioning him that the United States would be assuming the responsibility for the postwar situation.
Bush told Powell that he understood the ramifications, Woodward said.
Despite his reservations about the policy, Powell told the president he would support him, deciding that it would be "an unthinkable act of disloyalty" to both Bush and U.S. troops to walk away at that point, according to Woodward.

He told the President he'd be facing this alone and regardless of his personal opinion he supports his Commander.
You're disappointed and I find that very honorable. Boy do we have different perspectives!!

Powell understands the "big picture".

I think Larry King is all about geriatric stuff, he's not really news.
He had Anna Nicole Smith on a while back to talk about her diet...

how do you spell allie? is that right?