Why the Iraqi's don't respect us and "feel the love"...

[Chuckiechan]

Does anyone wonder what we have to do to get them to "like" us more? Maybe nukes are the answer. These people are certifiably crazy.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/inbeltway.htm

Letter from JOC
"Chilling day today," writes an Army officer deployed to Iraq from the Pentagon. His letter to Washington, which he's given this column permission to reprint, provides a personal glimpse into last week's escalation of fighting by Iraqis that killed dozens of U.S. troops....
"I was in the JOC [joint ops center] when a large demonstration began forming in An-Najaf, a little south of here. It started to turn violent when they came closer and closer to the Spanish [military] base in that city," the officer writes. ...
"Hundreds of civilians, many of them armed, with militia among them, began attacking the base. We had an American soldier there as a liaison, and he called in to the JOC to give General [name deleted] a sitrep [situation report]. As the crowd became more violent and a firefight started to break out, you could hear him getting more and more nervous. ...
"When it got completely out of hand, he requested air support in the form of Apache gunships. He was extremely stressed and told us if we didn't get ordnance on target immediately they would get overrun. He said if he broke radio contact it was because they'd been completely wiped out. ...
"We had a UAV [unmanned aerial vehicle] Predator feed of the area and watched the whole thing unfold as they rushed the gates and fired from the city buildings surrounding the base. It was pretty hairy. Finally, after the gunships arrived, we were able to regain the upper hand. ...
"Lots of casualties, mostly on their side. I can see the news articles already, 'Coalition forces fire on demonstration,' but take my word for it, it was no peaceful demonstration, they were actively engaged in combat. ...
"It appears to me this was a well-planned attack on the Spanish in an effort to drive a wedge further between our two countries, now that the newly elected Spanish government wants to pull their forces out of Iraq. ...
"I also believe ... they have been emboldened ... following the desecration of [four American civilian] bodies in Fallujah. Arabs respect strength and respond to violence, a well-planned, metered [U.S] response to avoid civilian casualties is lost on them — in fact, it is seen as a weakness....
"This is going to get worse before it gets better, but we will prevail, I have no doubts."

[Epidemic]

Velvet glove versus Iron fist approach.

I think both methods are required in a conflict such as this.

The proper mix is where the trick lies.

I am perplexed by the scope and scale of the problem. How do you decide when to blow up and when to allow infractions to slide. Censorship, propaganda, force, and kindness must be metered out with accuracy and timing. For the greatest military and political minds this is a tremendous problem to make a mixture which is perfect or even approximately accurate!

[Chuckiechan]

We have been described as being too "squeamish" to operate in this part of the world. It's all about God and religion. Maybe we explain to them that we worship different Gods:

Jesus loves you , Allah wants you dead...

We need to change the fundamenals of their thinking.

[Epidemic]

Now that is an approach to insure a religious war and to win converts of many fence sitters.

Any change to fundamentals should be that dying in the name of pursuading USA to leave is not going to work. And that life will be better if peace is sustained.

[Zotzmein]

I don’t think you’re going to change their belief structure to the extent that they will start loving or us or even liking the West. You’re more apt to engulf the globe in some sort of “Holy War” and as Epidemic suggests draw others who currently aren’t in this fight which doesn’t necessarily translate into a good thing for us.

I think the long term solution here is to develop an alternative to fossil fuel, withdraw completely from the Middle East and in the absence of a common enemy (in this case the West, also referred to as the infidels) factionalism will reignite among the various groups and in a couple of hundred years maybe they’ll kill each other off.

I think the west needs to leave the Middle East entirely.

Regards,
Zotz Mein

[TOAD6147]

Epi, I respect your thoughts on the matter but it's gung-ho mindsets like chuckie's that will bring about the use of nukes as "a last resort" and the ultimate destruction of the world. Then they will be happy 'cause they have "won" at any cost.

[Epidemic]

Alternative fuels might well ignite a holy war. If 1.5 billion people are suddenly stripped of the one reliable source of income I can't imagine that they will feel as if their lot in life has improved.

Either way the next 50 years will see the exaustion of some middle eastern countries resources. The increased suffering may well require war to survive for said people.

A nice capitalistic democracy with a diversification of the middle east's 1 trick pony (oil) is critical. they will need a new sale-able industry or there will be trouble.

[Chuckiechan]

No one is going nuke anybody, and I just got carried away by the spirit of Easter....

The next crisis facing the modern world is that we are running out of oil, and the Saudi's are suspected of overstating their reserves.

Thus, is it still wise for a president to seek to create stability and pro Ameican feelings in a country that can actually increase the world's oil supply?

Is the Prez a bad guy for looking ahead and figuring we need Iraq as a friend not an enemy (as it clearly was during Saddam's reign)?

[Epidemic]

Saddam was all about business, power and murder. He could have been converted to an american ally with a few billion bucks in oil contracts.

[aldtech]

From what I understand, a large percentage of the city has fled and what remains are the principal insurgents and their masters. If the hostages are killed, either the American or the Japanese, particularly the Japanese, I would have no problem with a MOAB or 2 resolution. If you find a rattlesnake den, you are not going to stick your arm in there to pull them out one at a time, just frag the hole and kill them all.

As others have pointed out, it is the perception in the mid-east that the US does not have the stomach to do what is necessary to stabilize the situation. In part they are right, we are a democratic society, which by and large do not concede to barbaric methods, but I think that we can take a slap in the face only so many times.

Personally I think that Bush should undertake a more heavy-handed approach because I feel his re-election is not going to happen. What better way to pave the way for a more secure Iraq than by getting all the dirty work out of the way? Therefore the next administration can just pick up the pieces and possibly have a better chance at establishing a real democratic Iraq.

I mean think about it, Bush has asked the American people to sacrifice some of our freedoms (Patriot Act), the American soldiers to make the ultimate sacrifice and the American Image or Credibility to take a beating from our peers, why not finish it with the president taking the ultimate sacrifice (to his political career) and just get the job done?

The stupidity of such a statement baffles me but it seems to me that some of you would go along with this whole heartedly, except the political sacrifice part. Of course repercussions of such an act would be more devastating to us than to them because we live in the eye of our community meaning our allies. Although secretly they may applaud such an action, publicly we would be castrated and likened to be no better than the terrorists we seek to eliminate.

We are better than that, aren’t we?