electrical problem

[jaida]

The diag is pretty bad hopefully you can get the jist of it. Problem is that this setup if very weird four sets of lines going into one light fixture box. On this breaker there is only 2 sets of plugs, 2 sets of lights and a switch to control the lights. The problem is that I have been trying many different combinations and I cannot get it to work.

The best I have done is getting the switch to turn on the one set of lights but turn off one set of plugs when it's switch on.

If you refer to the diagram:

I have figured out that if you take 1 wire from each line at the top and connect them tougether it will activate the switch. Also if you connect the two left lines tougether on their own both plugs will work

futhermore sticking the black and white tougether on the top left line will kick the breaker. But if the other lines are connected tougether i.e black and white it will not kick the breaker. I think this just tells which line is supplying the power though and that would be the one at the top left.


can anyone help me out

thanks

You're going to have to be more descriptive of what you want to do.

I assume you want the wall outlets to always remain energized, and both of the lights to be controlled by the switch?

[Graham]

I cant make out the diag. nor your description, I understand you dont know the technical terms but we need more !!

Household wiring is usually run in rings i.e. fuse-box (breaker)- socket-socket-socket-fuse-box.


Tell us more.

G

[jaida]

okay i'll see how much you can get from this:

as far as what I want done is for both plugs to remain energized and the switch to control the two set of lights.


I guess I really didn't explain it that well. What my diag is supposed to illustrate the 4 lines going into the main lightfixture box that I need to hook the lights up to. So normally a light fixture box will have 2 white, 2 black and two ground wires at the most. This box has 4 white, 4 black and 4 white wires coming into it.

Basically everything on the breaker is dependant upon how the one main light fixture is hooked up. If something with the light fixture is hooked up improper (which is the problem I am having) then everything will not work properly.

I hope this helps get a better picture of it if it doesn't lmk and i'll how much more info I can supply

thanks for the responses guys

[I_W]

I've done a lot of wiring over the years including my own 1000 sq foot addition/remodel that I did myself.

Like the others, I'd be happy to try to help but I'm not sure I can figure out:

• what you have now AND
• what you are trying to do

Maybe forget the drawing.

WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU WANT TO DO?
WHERE IS THIS BOX THAT YOU'RE MESSING WITH?
WHERE ARE THE LIGHTS YOU WANT TO TURN ON AND OFF?
WHERE ARE THE OUTLETS YOU WANT TO STAY ON?
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO?

One thing to remember is WHITE is supposed to be the neutral (cold) side of the line. Black is supposed to be the HOT side of the line (sometimes switched). So you DON'T want to twist them together as I think I understand you did.

Is this a light switched from more than one place?

It is generally NOT code legal to have lights and outlets on the same circuit. Likely you have old wiring or something that somebody did themselves. Maybe that's why the description and the diagram are so hard to understand.

Try it again, I'm sure somebody will be able to figure it out for you. And, do you have a voltmeter or a test lamp of some sort?
--------------------------
Something to ponder right now as best I can figure what you have.

Pairs of wires:

1. (one pair) Likely two of the wires go to a switch.
(Take off the switch cover and see if it appears as though there are ONLY TWO wires in that box.) When the switch is turned ON those two wires are connected and complete the circuit.

2. (second pair) Likely a black and a white are the AC supply line coming in.

3. (third pair) If you have another light fixture somewhere that is also controlled by that same switch then a third pair of wires likely goes to that fixture.

4. (fourth pair) If you don't have a light fixture in this box that you're working on then a fourth pair goes to that fixture also.

Any ground wires are usually only paper covered if that and are often/usually bare. If you have wiring done in the past 50 years you'll probably have romex - plastic covered wire or if older early Romex stuff covered in a black almost tar like woven material with two #12 or #14 AWG wires and a ground. The wires going to a switch may be minus the ground wire.

I sure hope you don't have real early knob and tube wiring!!!

[uethello]

DOH! I_W answered first, but mine was basically the same with less caps.

I've seen junction boxes stuffed full to the point of ridiculousness. If you know how, run a new circuit.

[jerrygarcia]

Does the switch box only have one set of wires in it? If it does, you have what is called a switch leg.

http://www.electricalhowto.com/a_switch_leg.htm

See if this helps out and if this is what you have. If you add a second fixture, just attach it to the wires that feed the light you see in the diagram.

Is this what you're describing? How'd I do?

...of course in my diagram, the 2nd set of lights is unswitched.. which is actually what you described..

[I_W]

Nice drawing Fingers.

However in this neck of the woods, California, it's almost universal that the AC supply stays in the ceiling or wall box at the base of the lamp and two wires go to the switch and make and break the hot lead to the light.

In my experience it's rare that to find a hot AC line in the wall switch box.

jerrygarcia that's a nice site with those simple pictures. I'll need to book mark it.

I usually either use a black permanent marker and put a dark band on the white wire going to the "switch leg" so that if somebody opens the box where the switch is they'll know that it's NOT neutral (WHITE) as it appears. Or a turn of electrical tape is a good reminder. In an ideal world I think those wires to the switch should be red and black and not contain a white implying to the novice that they've found a neutral wire.

I guess on second thought that a novice shouldn't be in the box in the first place!

[jaida]

thanks for the response I_W

I will try and straigten this out some more then.

This is older wiring that I am guessing someone did on there own. This is definetly not know and wire tubing its normal 14 awg stuff.

what I want to do is hook this up properly so that the outlets will have constant power, and the two lights will be turned on using the one switch.

the box that I am messing with on the roof on the basement the other set of lights is about 5 feet away also on the root of the basement.

The other set of lights has one line coming in. I have hooked it up properly already. The switch has one line coming in. It's also hooked up properly.

One outlet is to the east of the main fixture on the wall it's hooked up properly. The other outlet is to the west of the main light fixture on the wall. Each plug has one line going into it.

I don't have a voltmeter .



by line I mean (black, white, ground)