Rage against off-shoring is very real

[pickel]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/0...ing/index.html

Who here has lost their good and now is slinging burgers or parking cars ????

I, myself, have been lucky, so far, but know many just struggling to survive.

I feel if there isn't a change in the present administration, our children will be selling lemonade to pay the house note.

[NeoStarO1]

This is a Load of B _ _ _ _ _ _ T!

Make no mistake, this is the issue of the year. President Bush's chief economic adviser Greg Mankiw said recently that "outsourcing...is something that we should realize is probably a plus for the economy in the long run."

He is dead wrong in this that "in the long run it will be better for the economy" This is WILL hurt our people here. Unless we put a stop to "outsourcing" the work force america will end up in a deep pile of poop!

Government been harping and hawing about how important it is to get an education. they dole out grants so people can get degrees in high tech fields only to allow the jobs to go over seas. Then what the heck is the point of getting an education if they won't be able to get jobs?

People are not going to settle working for 7bucks an hour at walmart or flipping burgers after getting a degree.

Stupid polititans need to get thier act together and outlaw this!

Neo

Now Tony Talking:

Hello all,

This has always been a major beef with Neo and I. We both feel this is by far the most detrimental shift happening in America and it will result in total collapse of the American work-force as well as its social economic system. It was already a huge disaster when manual labor jobs were outsourced over-seas, so to claim that outsourcing high-tech jobs is not detrimental is delusional. I mean we told the displaced farmers, mill workers, loggers and other manual laborers to spend their life savings and take out monumental loans so that they could once again become productive members of society by going into hi-tech only to outsource their jobs once again. High ranking and highly paid government officials all utilized our tax money to aid in implementing re-education programs for our displaced laboring brethren only to displace them once again, and at a time they were just about to regain their lives. On top of this, in the near future the government will probably stoop so low as to claim that we Americans have become a lazy nation due to the ever increasing number of us who have no choice but to go on welfare. This dire situation hits real close for me because I worked for a software consulting firm for 7 years which was once an awesome place to work, a home away from home that employed over 50 people and had the best reputation in the industry. To make a long story short, the owner recently sold out to Rand Corp. who of course promised better things for all the employees only to stab them in the back and hand out pink slips to 40 employees after the acquisition. I saw the inconsistencies in what Rand promised and used my limited time left at the company to start a new life for myself and begin my own business. The writing on the wall was clear to me when Rand was gloating about how well they treated their 3,000 employees in over 1,000 offices worldwide. If you do the math this equates to a 3 man office in each location. These guys even went so far as to offer me a promotional relocation position in thier new San Jose office, I refused and found out three months later that the office in that location was terminated. Now I wander what is to happen to my buddy Charlie who had the worse job in the business(IT Manager). He became a close friend of mine and we shared many good times hunting and fishing together. He worked at this company many years before I got their, but before that he was a rodeo champ then a logger and mill-worker. He was urged by his re-education counselor to get into IT and so he did so being a hardworking proud citizen. Now his days are numbered as Rand is going to move IT into a central HUB, probably offshore. Anyways, I thank you all for letting me rant as this will effect all of us and our childrens children.

Best Regards,

Tony

[Chuckiechan]

Didn't GWB not so long ago try to protect domestic steel, and was threatened with a trade war by the EU and had to back down to prevent a trade war?

Maybe people should stop shopping at Walmart! It didn't just start growing when George was elected.

By what mechanism would a US president stop outsourcing? Announce a blocade of India and China?

Hysterical complaining isn't creating ideas.

[Bovon]

American industry has been after a way...any way, to kill the trade unions in the US. I smell trade union killers in this off shore job market. Once the unions have bitten the dust, the companies will come back here to hire..but no more 20 to 25 bucks an hour for skilled labor...more like 5 bucks above minimum wage for skilled labor, and no benefits. It was like this once...and I think it will be back... God help the working class..no money for education. No time off from work with pay...vacations will be a thing of the past.

Maybe thats too black of a picture...you think?... I don't.. I have seen this being led up to and quietly spoken of in several high profile staff meetings in the past 20 years... I have been retired for 12 years...and I have no way to know what the chatter is today in these meetings.

[Epidemic]

What is the solution, all those who are crying the sky is falling. How do you force companies to hire local tallent who can produce the same unskilled tallent for 2 & 3 even 10 times the cost of overseas.

I guess one way is to start demanding equal pay scales in foreign countries. yea thatll go over big.

China you must pay your unskilled labor 13 dollars an hour to put the head on a doll.

India you must pay 22 dollars an hour for programmers.

What is the solution?

[NeoStarO1]

chuckiechan,

Just what does "maybe people should stop shopping at walmart" have to do with anything? What difference does it make if a person shops at walmart, target, kmart, fredmyers ect...? Majority of the products are made overseas no matter where you buy them at. Walmart just happens to be leading the market right now.

In terms of products, majority of the products out there on the market are made overseas. This is a growing problem for our workers here in america because factories are shutting down and moving thier factories overseas. Thousands of jobs are lost for good. These people often times people who have dedicated years of thier life to the company are stuck with absolutly nothing. To scramble looking for new jobs.

IT and other programming jobs are already suffereing the same fate. Its going overseas because labor is cheaper.

Who benifits the most from this?????

The answer is the owners of these huge corporations. They are the only ones to beinfit from thier products being manufactured overseas. All the employees who make the company function loose out. The owner himself does not make the company function. Its employees is what makes it function and these corporations don't want to pay the wages here in the so they close down factories and go overseas for cheap labor.

The politians need to make it a law that if a company starts a factory in the usa that it needs to stay in the usa. Instead of creating jobs for the american people they are closing down jobs. By elimiating outsourcing the american unemployment rates will steadily decrease rather than increasing as it is now.

The government continues to give money to all these countries because they claim to be poor and need to be fed. At the same time we are also allowing these huge corporations to build in these countries for cheaper labor. When is it going to stop? We are supposably in a huge defiect in budget. It will get worse if the free trade continues to go at the rate it is.

Okay exactly what is free trade?

Free trade is an agreement that allows manufacturers, agriculturers to benifit by increased wealth and to improve the competitive marketplace, thereby allowing consumers to get lower priced goods.

Okay now where does that leave the consumers at with reduce priced products in a high ecomony?

So basically what is happening is manufactureres are giving us products at lower prices at the expense of your jobs.

These jobs in effect are causing the increased unemployment rates. Forcing more and more people to go to the government for food stamps, welfare and other assistance and in a continued domonio effect its causing budget cuts in healthcare and other areas.

One decision effects other things in life and I do belive that by allowing the free trade to go on as it has. It created a huge domonio effect that is not just affecting our american workforce, but also has effected budgeting in terms of educaiton for our children and healthcare.

[brandon184]

Make no mistake, this is the issue of the year. President Bush's chief economic adviser Greg Mankiw said recently that "outsourcing...is something that we should realize is probably a plus for the economy in the long run."

Like I've said many times before... Tell this kind of B.S. to the guy who has lost his job and can barely feed his wife & children. Maybe he'll understand.

[Epidemic]

Neo,

Exactly what law in the constitution are they going to use to restrict private enterprise from moving jobs off shore?

What right does the US government have to tell me the founder of my own company to make widgets that I can not compete in the global sale of my goods.

By saying that you can not form a company over here and then farm it out later do you think that might styfle new startups. In other words when the next atari decides to try building a new product wont they just start the process off with foreign labor rather than risk laws restricting later movement for competetive reasons?

I do not like the idea of working for a company for years and then having my job go over seas. But I am not sure there is a sollution.


I do not know what the ultimate sollution is but I see no legal way for George or Kerry to force a corporation to say in the US.

I guess they could give them corporate welfare to remain competetive or give them tax breaks. But that seems to receive a cold reception on the part of democrats.

[Omardeth]

the whole problem is greed ... period

if last year you made a 15% profit and this year you make a 14% profit this year is a failure .. but you made a profit you say .. well you didn't make more of a profit so you failed .

thats teh problem .

i agree that the goverment needs to step in and do something to stop the bleeding of our jobs to outsourceing . if you are a american company and take job out of the us to make more of a profit thats fine . u will pay a tarif to bring those goods back in to the country.

Exactly what law in the constitution are they going to use to restrict private enterprise from moving jobs off shore?

national security , does it not harm the nation when to many people lose there jobs ? less people working means less tax money , less tax money means less money for the goverment to do its business . if that isn't a national security issue what is ?


also unless i am mistaken , nowhere in the constitution does it say you can make money does it ?

[NeoStarO1]

Originally posted by Epidemic
What is the solution, all those who are crying the sky is falling. How do you force companies to hire local tallent who can produce the same unskilled tallent for 2 & 3 even 10 times the cost of overseas.

I guess one way is to start demanding equal pay scales in foreign countries. yea thatll go over big.

China you must pay your unskilled labor 13 dollars an hour to put the head on a doll.

India you must pay 22 dollars an hour for programmers.

What is the solution?

Hello again this is Tony,

My apologies for posting as Neo, but I hardly frequent this forum so I will not clog up your bandwidth with another user name. I do feel that this is an important enough topic to warrant discussion and thus I will borrow Neo's handle once again.

I will concede to the fact that I am complaining about this problem of outsourcing, but it is only because I see many American workers who have had their sky fall upon them many times, like my friend Charlie. When you see over a dozen people that you have worked with, whom have been with a company for over 8+ years and in Charlies case 15 years, building it up only to receive a pink slip, it drives a wedge into your heart. I understand when a company starts slipping in profits and has no choice but to lay off its force. But this is not the case with most of our major firms. They will admit to ever increasing profits, but they plainly state that they closed down their U.S. companies in order to stay competitive with the other companies who have moved over seas. It is here that we must change the policies. America's strength and economy is built on capitalism which promotes intense competition and rewards the most astute entrepeneurs and investors which in turn benefits consumers by lowering cost of goods. This is all well and good as long as we are playing by the same rules, but if you allow the entrepeneurs a way to cheat the system by moving operations out of the country then of course the most astute companies will pack up and leave for greener$$ pastures. Now I say cheat the system because our capitalist system was designed to promote growth in our country, namely large manufacturing firms and corporations who in turn employ hundreds, thousands, and even entire townships of people thus completing and strengthing the circle between producer and consumer. By not properly regulating outsourcing over-seas, the corporations and manufacturers(and their investors) are the only people benefiting whereas those hundreds and thousands and townships are now unemployed and scrambling to Walmart with their pride stuck between their legs in order to stretch their welfare checks that all us who still have a job are paying for with our taxes. I think we should reform the Free Trade agreement and rename it the Fair Trade agreement so that America has a fair chance at keeping her companies and thus her people fed and sheltered. We can do this by increasing import tarrifs or export of labor tarrifs. This is done with import cars where the US implies a tarrif on them in order to even out the market with US makes. We can make it a requirement that a US company must build a comparable company in the US for every company built over-seas. We can offer much more aggressive tax programs and benefits for firms that remain in the US. There are many creative ways to encourage growth both in the US and over-seas, it should not be strictly one way or another. As the policies stand, what level headed entrepeur would stay on this playing field when the cheat codes are over-seas.

What am I doing about it? I will make sure that my employees get paid a decent living wage and encourage them to become part of my business. I will make sure that they and their family be insured at the expense of my personal wealth because that is what I have always wanted and dreamed of America to be.

Once again thanks for listening to the diatribe
Best Regards,

Tony