Ann Coulter on Bush and the National Guard issue...

[Chuckiechan]

http://www.anncoulter.org/

Nothing is good enough proof for the Democrats...

[pickel]

No, but this is....

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82432,00.html

[RADAR1797]

Pickel,

Way to deflect! You can't throw out the standard lies, so you throw in something totally off topic.

-RADAR

[J-Excel]

pickel,

If I ever die courageously defending freedom, please don't dishonor me by using my name for political purposes.

thanks

[MTAtech]

Nothing like an objective sources, Ann Coulter.

What this is about is attitude and character that I would argue hasn't changed from his early years.

This privilege brought him advantages that would have excluded others from Guard Service - a highly sought place during Vietname because almost certainly if one was in the Guard they wouldn't go to Vietnam.

"The records show that Bush had to be granted a waiver to join the Guard because of some minor scrapes with the law: a disorderly conduct arrest during his college years at Yale that was later dismissed, and two speeding tickets and two citations for "negligent collisions" in Houston." http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...-top-headlines


As Bob Herbert said in the NY Times yesterday, "Mr. Bush favored the war in Vietnam, but he had the necessary clout to ensure that he wouldn't have to serve there. He entered the Texas Air National Guard at the height of the war in 1968 by leaping ahead of 500 other applicants who were on a waiting list.

So here's the thing: After strolling to the head of the line, and putting the Guard to the considerable expense of training him as a pilot, Lieutenant Bush didn't even bother to take his duties seriously. He breezed off to Alabama to work on a political campaign. He never showed up as required to take his annual flight physical in 1972, and because of that was suspended from flying.

Citing phantom weapons of mass destruction, he led the nation into a war of choice that has resulted so far in the tragic deaths of more than 500 American troops and thousands of innocent Iraqis, and the wounding of thousands upon thousands of others. Like Mr. Bush during Vietnam, privileged Americans have had the luxury of favoring the madness in Iraq without having to worry about fighting and dying there. If the sons and daughters of the wealthy and powerful were in danger of being sent to Iraq, the U.S. wouldn't be there."

[Pexster]

From "Fortunate Son" by John Fogerty (Creedence Clearwater Revival)

Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
Ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief",
Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no,
Yeah!

I don't mind that George Bush is a "fortunate son." I mind that he's such a smug, lying hypocrite about it.

[Chuckiechan]

As a member of the National Guard, whether you like it or not, you are eligible to be called up to active duty at any time.

[pickel]

Originally posted by Pexster
From "Fortunate Son" by John Fogerty (Creedence Clearwater Revival)

Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
Ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief",
Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no,
Yeah!

I don't mind that George Bush is a "fortunate son." I mind that he's such a smug, lying hypocrite about it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Mark my words Radar and Excel...When's it's all over and a done,
and our troops have returned home ( those of whom are still alive) Iraq will plumet to the depths of anarchy and total instabilty. Here's another example which gets wortse every day.

http://www.cnn.com/


My fellow countrymen do not seem to undersatnd that factions and forces in the Middle East do not want and resent outside interference and will do ANYTHING to bring down whatever platform that think in intrusive. The commom people we are trying to help and liberate have no say and will never have a say as long as there are " Insergents" and I'm sure the list is as long as my J%$^son. I have been over there amongst those people and seen first hand the differences in our culture and theirs.
Imagine if we had lost the Revolution???? Do you think , for a moment , the revolting forces woiuld not be bombing shipyards, intercepting intelligence or fighting anyway they were able??
How do you think those people veiw us...Everybody has two cars, cable, membership at the country club, enough bombs and armed forces to have thousands of deployments all over the world. The
Superbowl, the World Series and Drew Carey. And what do they have??? Nothing but resentment and hatred...Go ask them if you don't believe me. Get off your computer and go out in the REAL world and get up front opinions from they who would disagree.
Things are mucho different than when veiwed from ypur seat in front of a monitor.

[Theophylact]

*deleted*

Moreover, if we're going to start delving into exactly who did what back then, maybe Max Cleland should stop allowing Democrats to portray him as a war hero who lost his limbs taking enemy fire on the battlefields of Vietnam.

Cleland lost three limbs in an accident during a routine noncombat mission where he was about to drink beer with friends. He saw a grenade on the ground and picked it up. He could have done that at Fort Dix. In fact, Cleland could have dropped a grenade on his foot as a National Guardsman –- or what Cleland sneeringly calls "weekend warriors." Luckily for Cleland's political career and current pomposity about Bush, he happened to do it while in Vietnam.

There is more than a whiff of dishonesty in how Cleland is presented to the American people. Terry McAuliffe goes around saying, "Max Cleland, a triple amputee who left three limbs on the battlefield of Vietnam," was thrown out of office because Republicans "had the audacity to call Max Cleland unpatriotic." Mr. Cleland, a word of advice: When a slimy weasel like Terry McAuliffe is vouching for your combat record, it's time to sound "retreat" on that subject.

Army General Order 4361, dated June 9, 1968, states that the Silver Star was awarded to U.S. Army Capt. Max Cleland "for gallantry in action while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an armed hostile force in Vietnam." In 1968, then Capt. Cleland was in action at the battle of Khe Sanh. Below is the language contained in his Silver Star Order:

"Awarded: Silver Star; Date Action: 4 April 1968; Theater: Republic of Vietnam

"Action: For gallantry in action while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an armed hostile force in the Republic of Vietnam. Captain Cleland distinguished himself by exceptionally valorous action on 4 April 1968, while serving as communications officer of the 2nd Battalion, 12th Calvary during an enemy attack near Khe Sanh, Republic of Vietnam.

"When the battalion command post came under a heavy enemy rocket and mortar attack, Capt. Cleland, disregarding his own safety, exposed himself to the rocket barrage as he left his covered position to administer first aid to his wounded comrades. He then assisted in moving the injured personnel to covered positions. Continuing to expose himself, Capt. Cleland organized his men into a work party to repair the battalion communications equipment which had been damaged by enemy fire. His gallant action is in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service, and reflects great credit upon himself, his unit, and the United States Army.

"Authority: By direction of the President, under the provisions of the Act of Congress, approved 9 July 1968."

The action cited occurred on April 4, 1968, four days before the grenade explosion that cost Sen. Cleland both legs and an arm.

As has been widely reported in the Atlanta Constitution beginning in 1968, then-Capt. Cleland, an Army Signal Officer, volunteered for infantry service to relieve the stranded Marines and members of the Army's 1st Cavalry at the battle of Khe Sanh.

While disembarking from a transport helicopter, Capt. Cleland reached for a grenade he believed had become dislodged from his web gear. Later it was discovered that the grenade belonged to a young soldier new to the theater. That soldier had improperly prepared the grenade pin for easy detonation and had dropped it while coming off the helicopter. The grenade exploded and severely injured Capt. Cleland.

The Silver Star is the third-highest valor decoration of the United States. Sen. Cleland also was awarded a Soldier's Medal, Bronze Star, Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal with Device (1960), Vietnam Service Medal, National Defense Service Medal and Parachutist Badge.

The type of language that was removed from this post is unnecessary and below the standard of conduct we expect in the TechIMO forums. - Fingers /TechIMO Moderator

[Epidemic]

She lied; it wasn't a grenade that he had dropped. And what did Cleland do in Vietnam?



On the grenade thing I fail to see the destinction. This was not a man who was trying to jump on a grenade for the platoon. he saw a grenade he though he had dropped and picked it up and found out that it was ready to go. I do not see it as heroic or foolish or anything more than a tragedy. But coulters description of the point is well with in the realm of accurate beyond symantics.