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Old 11-23-2003, 06:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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DIY for the Regular Guy

Are there any "budget box" recommendation sites for regular guys?

I mean, I don't follow the latest hardware news or care to memorize the array of currently available viddy chipsets. I just want to build a stable, affordable, box and forget about it.

It's so frustrating that ALL the hardware advice site start with the assumption that:

* You MUST have a mid-tower case.

* Being satisfied with onboard video makes one's manhood highly suspect.

* Having the noise pollution equivalent of a hair dryer running in your living room is somehow not a big deal.

* Asus makes good boards (in direct contradiction to the hundreds of horror stories I read on the forums).

* Fiddling with BIOS settings, swapping out DDR bars, and absentmindedly caressing one's naughty bits wilst FDISK completes is somehow an enjoyable way of spending your evenings.

Grrrr! Sorry for the rant. I just want a box that is a darn good value and will run for years until it's so obsolete I toss it in the trash and build another one. I can do better than a Dell because shipping charges and sales tax (even with stackable coupons) make their boxes not the best value.

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Old 11-23-2003, 06:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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the case is up to you, lol.

You sound like a good fit for a biostar motherboard

like the M7NCG 400 from newegg http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...tby=14&order=1

Has decent onboard gf4 graphics...6ch sound if you want to expand that way etc.
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Old 11-23-2003, 09:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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get a heatsink that takes 90mm fans and you wont have that hair dryer sound.
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Old 11-29-2003, 09:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I would just stick with a dell for quality and quietness. Or you can check out these kinds of sites.

http://www.silentpcreview.com
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Old 11-29-2003, 10:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
* Fiddling with BIOS settings, swapping out DDR bars, and absentmindedly caressing one's naughty bits wilst FDISK completes is somehow an enjoyable way of spending your evenings.
*Whistles nervously*

Seriously though, I don't subscribe to that BS anyway. Full tower cases are so much more fun...I mean, uhh:

* Any case will do you. Here's the advantages:

Shuttle cases - Very small, only enough room for one or two 5-1/2inch drives, but very portable and just as good as any desktop. Plus, you can put it on your desk and it will look stylish, as opposed to looking like a big white box that makes noise. Speaking of which, shuttles can use some nice heat pipes which I think help cut down on noise.

Mini-Tower - If you get a mini-tower, make sure it's eay to open. I know your diesk isn't going to be like 'Monster Garage' for PCs, but belive me, it REALLY helps should you have to add a new card or change out a bad drive. Ever open an old E-machines tower before? No fun, eh? (took me 1 hour to get the outer cover on the stupid thing once, with help from someone else even ) Other than that, it can fit in more places than it's larger bretheren, and has more room for expansion than the shuttle (so if you need more than 2 cards in the computer).

Mid-tower - Where the geek-en starts. If you have 2 CD drives, a Creative Live!-Drive, a floppy, AND a zip drive (that are all internal),then you won't want to settle for less than a mida-tower. The inside is also roomier for those midnight repairs, but I doubt that matters much to ya.

Full tower - I would shy away from these if I were you, unless you like having your vision obscured when carrying one. They have HUGE room for expansion (5 5-1/2 inch drives, 6 3-1/4 inch bays, and one 3-1/4 bay for a floppy in mine), but cooling one can be a bummer unless you like the sound a 747 makes on take-off (but d*** if it isn't cold). The nice thing is that they are very easy to work with (which is why I have mine), but that comes at a price. You have to buy longer cables, which can be expensive

So you don't want Dell, eh? Well, that's okay. I don't like being rerouted through India either You can make one yourself quite easily nowadays. Oh, and doing so helps you learn more about the beast that occasionally easts that report, and knowing each part down to the model # (written down of course) helps when something breaks (now you know what manufacturer specifically to turn to).

You'll need a zoo of parts, but finding them will help save SOO much money. A good place to turn to is http://www.pricewatch.com , but some vendors there are shady. Cross check them against http://www.resellerratings.com (run by the same people as TechIMO!) to make sure you don't get ripped off.

Parts you will need:

Motherboard - The nexus of your computer, where everything plugs into. There are a variety of different companies that make them. I have had the best luck with MSI and Gigabyte, but Abit and Biostar are supposedly rebutable too. The most important thing to look for is the 'chipset' used, which is the part (or rather, parts) that lets all the different parts of your machine talk to each other. Currently, the best chipsets are the nVidia NForce2 and the VIA KT400A if you use AMD 32-bit proicessors (more on these later), the Via K8T800 if you use AMD 64-bit processors, or VIA PT880 or Intel 875P for Intel processors (correct me if I'm wrong on these guys!).

Processor - The 'brain' of the computer, that does most of the math your computer needs to do. There are 3 kinds you should look at:

Intel
AMD/32-bit
AMD/64-bit

The differences? AMD is the only company out with a 64-bit chip that works *fully* with older, 32-bit programs. Odds are, unless you are at a large company, what you are using now is a 32-bit program (on a 32-it processor). Its long and complicated, but basically, a 32-bit program and a 64-bit program are two completely different animals. And, if the numbers didn't tell you, 64-bits is better than 32 (bits refers to how much information goes into and out of a processor at once). Because the 64-bit chips are their flagship, older AMD chips are a bit cheaper now, but every bit as powerful. And they also require a more expensive, unique mortherboard to use. A 64-bit chip is, at this point, more an investment into the future, when the 64-bit chip will take over and the need to use both 32 and 64 bit programs becomes real (which isn't too far away).

Anyway, the new AMDs are better than the Intels from what I've read. But the Intels are a bit better than the older AMDs (esp. at the higher range). There isn't much of a reliablility difference between the two. It is true that AMD chips run hotter than Intels, but it's not a huge major difference that will really influence your decision IMO.

My processor speed we refer to how fast a processor can do a calculation. In Intel world, speed is gauged in megahertz. But in AMD world, things get a bit screwy. They give out big multiples of 100 that would scare normal buyers. But wait, there is a bethod to the madness. An AMD 1700+ chip runs at 1.1 Ghz. But in benchmarks, it compares more with a 1.7 GHz pentium than a 1.1GHz pentium. See? You aren't gonna find a 3GHz AMD (yet), but their 2 GHz chips can go toe to toe with Intel's 3GHz monsters. On the other hand, the most powerful Intels beat out the most powerful AMD 32s. So go figure.

Power Supply - Don't go below 400 watts. Play it safe. Going below can cause instabiities from an underpowered machine, or even damage to come components, or a blown cap (which emits flame, woohoo!). Also, go with reputable vendor like Antec. 2nd rate power supplies are often 'mislabeled' and sometimes generate less power than advertised. Beyond that, going quiet is always good. Whatever you do, this is not a place you want to save much money on.

Hard Drive - Any of the 'big 4' are good (Hitachi, Western Digital, Maxtor, Seagate). Most here, however, reccomend Western Digital wholeheartedly. I haven't had problems with WDs either. Neither company is very different though, and the difference are pretty small (extra static protection, better diagnostic utilities, longer warranty, etc). What size is up to you and dependent on what you do (if you do any video editing, then spring for the largest size you can afford).

CD Burner - Not everyone needs one, but they are good for backups at least. Plextor makes the best. Beyond that, TDKs are good. Can't think of any other manufaturers right now, but I'm sure other people here have some ideas

DVD Drive - Yes, it plays CDs too. They are so chep nowadays, it's senseless to not pay the extra $5-10 for DVD capability. Oh, and in case you haven't notices, the speeds of DVD and CD droves are a bit different (16x in DVD is about 48x in CD, etc). I've got jsut a cheap Artec drive that works wonders. Of course, if you look at DVD Burners, then it's another story (they burn CDs too).

With that and the necessary cabling (shoudl come with components), you can build your own funtioning machine. Oh, and you need an OS too. You'll need a full version, so I'd go grab a copy of WinXP.

As for cooling, might I reccomend buying 1 60mm-80mm converter and a quieter 80mm fan for your processor. Oh, and get an 80-mm fan to put in the back of the case (you'll regret it if you expect the PS and CPU fan to do all of the work). As long as you get one that works, you won't have much probelm with noise. If you are really concerned about noise, consider a 'slot cooler' that takes up one slot for an expansion card and makes litle noise. Works well IMO too.

-edit- Sorry about the spelling.
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Old 11-30-2003, 06:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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what about memory? if you go with win xp you should get at least 512mb.

you wont need a fan size converter if you get a heatsink that accepts larger fans. i would also suggest having the same amount of fans pulling air in as there are pulling air out (but not in the same location), as an unbalance can cause problems

another good brand for cd and dvd drives is liteon.

the nice thing about full towers is there's a ton of room to work in and theres more room for fans so you get better cooling.
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Old 12-04-2003, 05:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm with you, John Bennett. Everyone immediately assumes I want to stick a cheap CPU in a box the size of a refrigerator, then overclock the snot out of it. Ideally, I want a system that is cheap, cool, low-power, quiet, reliable and *the size of a postage stamp*. I don't care what color the motherboard is. After I stick it in my preferred *micro ATX case* I hope I never have to look at it again.

To get back on topic, I looked at some desktop uATX cases, e.g., Antec Minuet, and 14"x14"x5.5" "book" cases, e.g., Athenatech A100, Enermax CS-3017. I actually moved a P4 2.4C and 865-based motherboard into an Enermax CS-3107 book case, but the CPU/motherboard temps were higher than I liked - 60C/45C according to Motherboard Monitor 5. Additionally, the fan in the 200W PSU, twin 60mm rear fans and 80mm front fan make these book cases fairly noisy. On a positive note, a full height AGP card, e.g., ATI Radeon 9600 Pro, Asus V8420TD Ti4200, will fit in this class of case, and the seemingly anemic 200W SFX power supply was adequate for running the P4 2.4C, 865-based motherboard, and power-hungry BFG Asylum FX5200 Ultra (which requires an extra power connector).

The 2.4C/865 runs cool and reasonably quiet in its original 14"x16.5"x7" micro ATX case. The addition of a modest video card, e.g., Ti4200, Radeon 9600 Pro, does not raise temperatures appreciably.

Apex/Foxconn produces at least two uATX cases that actually measure 14"Hx7"Wx16.5"D - the TM-163 and TM-124 (http://www.apextechusa.com/proddisp_...ype=case&id=21). Both cases have a CPU air duct that channels fresh ambient air directly to the CPU cooler. Intel has listed both cases as "thermally advantaged", meaning that the temps inside the case do no exceed 38C under specific conditions (see intel.com).

I believe that you can build in a smaller case, but my guess is that the system must be very low-heat, e.g., Celeron 1.8A w/845GV motherboard. Either that, or run hot and take a chance on shortening the life of your components.
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