Area Circulation Scam 309-589-0867

[Area Circulation]

This takes too much time. please just call and ask for me. In 5 minutes we are done that way.

800-324-9452

They have a script to follow of course (legal thing), but ask for the manager and he will get you to me.

I am leaving for a conference at noon eastern time, so call before then, or wait til monday.

[Area Circulation]

You said:
I would think that your department head of customer service, would have more skills in dealing with complaints rather than a tech guy..

Actually I was in retail for ten years and dealt with many customers. I'm really basic, I just make them happy. That's not hard.

I've been a net admin for over 20 years now. But the bottom line is, we have no process in place for complaints that don't come in over the phone lines.

I am the best suited for this, and actually I'm the one who see's the danger of not responding.

you:
The only way you know....it is apparent to me that you do not deal with the general public in the daily course of business.

Not really relevent to the problem, but I'm working on it.

There is nothing unlawful in ridiculing someone...Please quote the slander, Mr Bellows.

I'll leave that to lawyers. I only know it would be wrong to ridicule your grandmother for making pie I don't like. If it seems wrong to me, it seems it would be illegal or actionable. Slander is definitely illegal and harmful. I assume improper directed ridicule that damages someone financially is illegal... I'm almost sure it is.


You are stirring the pot and would have been letting matters die on their own course..
\
I wish that were true, but my analysis shows that statistically it breeds more hearsay complaints, and worse, it causes customers to not contact us. Why would they, if they think we are acting illegally.

Our customers are being harmed. They wanted our magazines, but now they sometimes hurt us 'innocently', by believing foolish things said by people who have no first hand knowledge.

So most or many of your complaints came after people read a website.......I am beginning to find you disingenuous, Mr Bellows.


We deal in probably a thousand calls a day from customers wanting to change magazines, or who are unhappy they haven't received a specific issue, or within 8 weeks, etc.

But regarding the subset of web caused complaints, yes, I'm seeing many of them stem from checking up on us on the web after purchase, and seeing posts like Peter's, they refuse even to talk to us. That hurts us tremendously, and does a horrible dis-service to the customer..


That sounds more like a very bad business practice.. You mean you place your order (payment) with the publisher before receiving payment on your end?? Seems rather illogical to me, Mr Bellows..Perhaps you can set me straight..

Be happy too. It is how the magazine business operates. It's how we get deals better than anyone else, we assume risk. It works, until slander comes in and hurts our reputation and makes us lose money and our customers end up without the magazines they wanted. I was likewise surprised when I discovered this 5 months ago also, but it is what it is.

Would you be so kind and show me the slander..

Peter Cornstalks first post that started this thread, is full of slander. 'They prey on the elderly', etc. Google slander perhaps, for a good read. Wikipedia is good of course.

No one should be slander, Mr Bellows, and if you prove your point them those comments should retracted at once and a public apology would be in order...

That would be a wonderful thing.

I wish I had the time to have these lengthy discussions. But I really have a lot of work to do, and my time needs to be spent on true customer complaints. I need to be about the business of making people happy.

Thanks for your time. Contact me if you like, but by phone as writing takes a lot longer than a conversation.

[saturnotaku]

Originally Posted by Area Circulation

Would you be so kind and show me the slander..

Peter Cornstalks first post that started this thread, is full of slander. 'They prey on the elderly', etc. Google slander perhaps, for a good read. Wikipedia is good of course.

The actual term you're looking for in this situation would be libel, not slander.

[nomaxim]

Area Circulation,

If I may make a suggestion. In post #3 I linked to your company's BBB report. That report shows,

The BBB processed a total of 129 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period.Of the total of 129 complaints closed in 36 months, 82 were closed in the last year.

Now, of those 129 complaints. 125 are listed as 'Resolved', that means that the individual making the complaint was satisfied with results of the complaint.

4 are listed as 'Administratively Closed', this means that the individual making the complaint was not satisfied with the results of the complaint. However, the BBB feels that your company made every attempt to satisfy that individual.

Your company has a 'satisfactory record' with the BBB. In fact if your company was located on the west coast where the local BBB's give a rating of AAA-F, your company would likely have a above average rating, CC-BBB for example. Your company has a Federal Court history of nothing more then a single discrimination case in 2001.

Fall back on these facts.

In a legal sense Peter Cornstalk has stated an opinion of his encounter with you company. You cannot sue someone for stating a opinion. Legally you would have to prove that Peter Cornstalk's conversion with the people from 309-589-0867 did not take place, or is false.

Peter Cornstalk has not provided any evidence that your company preys on the elderly, that is his opinion. In order for your company to do that it would have to be shown that your company targets the elderly. I have neither seen nor found anything to substantiate Peter's claim to that affect. Nor have I seen any evidence that the phone number 309-589-0867 is in fact a part of your company, do you wish to confirm that?

I agree that this is a legal vs. moral issue. Your company is a telemarketing firm. Telemarketers are not well liked, deal with that. You threats of legal action will be perceived as just that, threats. That does not help your company's position much. In fact, IMO it makes your company look like a bully. Is that the type of image you wish to convey? (ie, if you say anything bad about us we will sue you.)

In conclusion. You are trying to deal with Peter's opinion as some sort of complaint. It is no such thing. He has not actually done business with your company, therefore he is just stating an opinion, nothing more.

I concur that some of your response's appear more like advert's then anythiong else, and as you said they are rather long winded. Nothing personal.

PS.
As saturnotaku just stated, slander is oral defamation, libel is written defamation.
Please at least get your legal terms correct.

[finbogg]

I recieved a phone call from Area Circulation informing me that I had been entered into a $1,000,000 sweepstakes. I have seen that many others have also been called about this offer. I was offered some sort of 3 day vacation package or something which is fine. When the operator proceded to fast talk me into signing up for, IMO, very confusing magazine subscriptions, I knew then that I was in for something I had encountered several times before.

I highly doubt anyone has ever won any $1,000,000 prize from Area Circulation. However I have no information to support this.

What I do know is that this is a scam. I have visited several other websites where people have all had the same response to these phone calls. I have also seen the exact same Burt Bellows sales pitch posted on every single one of them in response to something that someone else posted. I found it pretty pathetic he would insert his sales pitch into his defensive postings.

I was offered the same magazine offer I think everyone else here was offered. Had they offered me a magazine that I am interested in, instead of the ones the operator told me I was going to get (no choice in the matter) I may have considered sunscribing. Either way, I'm glad I didn't, and I feel awful the people who have been taken in by this. I have been reading stories of people who were not charges the $74 but were instead charged hundreds.

I feel bad for these people who got scammed. Any company that has to call you uninvited during business hours (you'd think they would wise up by now) and try to sell you anything by promising that you have a slim to no chance of winning some prize that probably doesn't even exists is a sad excuse for a company.

I would just like to end it by saying to anyone who may have been called by these people that it is a by the salesmans book scam. How do I know? I don't know for 100% sure, but I do know that I have been contacted by dozens of other companies trying to sell me some sort of crap that I don't want by using some sort of prize as a vessel. Here's a hint Mr. Bellows, do some research before you try to sell the same garbage to everyone you try to sell something to. We don't all want to read GQ magazine. Not everyone is the same, yet you send everyone the same offer. I'm not even a businessman and I know this. Had Area Circulation come to me with something that I wanted I may have considered the offer. How do you know what I want? The operator clearly told me that the reason for the call was because I used my credit card to buy something. I'm not even going to get into how much this frightens me, but it's obvious you are monitoring our credit card purchases with out out consent since I don't ever remember entering any sweepstakes or agreeing to speaking with your company. Perhaps you could take a look at what I purchased as a clue into what I like to buy.

I'm not trying to put you or your company down. If it appears this way I apologize. I would just like for once a salesman to approach me with a "killer deal" for something I want. This has never happened to me.

[Area Circulation]

I appreciate your well thought out description of the situation...

For one thing, it allows me to point out that there is no threat involved. In this case we are simply asking Peter to stop his 'libelous' statements via 3rd party mitigation. It would be offensive to me to suddenly hit someone with a law suit without warning and a deep attempt to resolve issues man to man.

Lawyers talk and give advice in a way pride and personal involvement can be overcome. "My lawyer said I should do this" is a great way to solve problems that may otherwise be affected by emotion, ego, etc.

Had he merely described his situation I would have addressed that aspect of his post, but he drew conclusions based on hearsay, and stated that we prey on the elderly, etc.

Because he claims we are scammers, we have been hurt financially. That is where we have to say this needs to be dealt with, and it's why I've offered information and tried to speak to people in person when possible.

After looking at Peter's website, I see his personal vendetta against scammers. Ironically I'd join him in his crusade, but now I'm suspecting that other companies are innocent, but plagued by false accusation and 'libel'.

We do believe it is libel, and it is definitely hurting us. His description of the phone call he received is skewed negatively in a way that does not occur when people are not looking for scammers and seeing them lurking everywhere in the shadows.

We have revised our scripts to make them shorter so our people don't talk so fast, so we are learning a lot and the feedback here is as valuable as gold to us. It will help our customers... we are also revamping other area's that we now see can be improved, and I'll be submitting a list of these changes when they are all in place. There are five area's that are considerably changed, and we all see it as a great help to make customers happy.

I will try to keep my responses shorter. Helping our existing customers is taking more time, so that will help me also.

Thanks for your time,

Burt Bellows
Area Circulation
Director of IT

Originally Posted by nomaxim

Area Circulation,

If I may make a suggestion. In post #3 I linked to your company's BBB report. That report shows, Now, of those 129 complaints. 125 are listed as 'Resolved', that means that the individual making the complaint was satisfied with results of the complaint.

4 are listed as 'Administratively Closed', this means that the individual making the complaint was not satisfied with the results of the complaint. However, the BBB feels that your company made every attempt to satisfy that individual.

Your company has a 'satisfactory record' with the BBB. In fact if your company was located on the west coast where the local BBB's give a rating of AAA-F, your company would likely have a above average rating, CC-BBB for example. Your company has a Federal Court history of nothing more then a single discrimination case in 2001.

Fall back on these facts.

In a legal sense Peter Cornstalk has stated an opinion of his encounter with you company. You cannot sue someone for stating a opinion. Legally you would have to prove that Peter Cornstalk's conversion with the people from 309-589-0867 did not take place, or is false.

Peter Cornstalk has not provided any evidence that your company preys on the elderly, that is his opinion. In order for your company to do that it would have to be shown that your company targets the elderly. I have neither seen nor found anything to substantiate Peter's claim to that affect. Nor have I seen any evidence that the phone number 309-589-0867 is in fact a part of your company, do you wish to confirm that?

I agree that this is a legal vs. moral issue. Your company is a telemarketing firm. Telemarketers are not well liked, deal with that. You threats of legal action will be perceived as just that, threats. That does not help your company's position much. In fact, IMO it makes your company look like a bully. Is that the type of image you wish to convey? (ie, if you say anything bad about us we will sue you.)

In conclusion. You are trying to deal with Peter's opinion as some sort of complaint. It is no such thing. He has not actually done business with your company, therefore he is just stating an opinion, nothing more.

I concur that some of your response's appear more like advert's then anythiong else, and as you said they are rather long winded. Nothing personal.

PS.
As saturnotaku just stated, slander is oral defamation, libel is written defamation.
Please at least get your legal terms correct.

[Area Circulation]

I appreciate that, and my lack of legal precision is why I'd rather leave these things to lawyers.

I learned something today.


Burt Bellows
Area Circulation
Director of It

Originally Posted by saturnotaku

The actual term you're looking for in this situation would be libel, not slander.

[Area Circulation]

Originally Posted by finbogg

I recieved a phone call from Area Circulation informing me that I had been entered into a $1,000,000 sweepstakes. I have seen that many others have also been called about this offer. I was offered some sort of 3 day vacation package or something which is fine. When the operator proceded to fast talk me into signing up for, IMO, very confusing magazine subscriptions, I knew then that I was in for something I had encountered several times before.

It's more simple to read perhaps...,

I was told to edit this post because it was a sales pitch, so here is a second hand attempt to describe what we do.

The details here are not based on what our company does, but gives you the idea of why some people may be confused in talking to us.

Let's say someone offered 3 magazines a week, for 5 years, at a rate of $3 per week, for a total of $780, and then they spread that amount out over the first year of the contract, making payments $65 per month during that year. After the first year is over, you get 4 more years with no further charges, because you would have paid it all off in one year.

That is the idea of what we do.

The million dollar sweepstake is with a company that specializes in handling such things, and yes there are winners. It's similar to us buying a lottery ticket in your name. You are entered and your chances of winning are described in detail.



I highly doubt anyone has ever won any $1,000,000 prize from Area Circulation. However I have no information to support this.

I do, and will see if I can get specific information about it. But we could not offer it if it were not legitimate. We are not in a foreign country were we are not bound by U.S. laws. We would have been closed down long ago... but we've been around for 20 years.

What I do know is that this is a scam. I have visited several other websites where people have all had the same response to these phone calls. I have also seen the exact same Burt Bellows sales pitch posted on every single one of them in response to something that someone else posted. I found it pretty pathetic he would insert his sales pitch into his defensive postings.


You misunderstand. I am not inserting a sales pitch, but describing what people are offered. You are also making an illegal libelous statement, especially when stating "What I do know is this is a scam".

Please be careful to state your opinion as opinion, rather than fact. Opinions are legal, statements of fact are libelous if wrong. Since you are wrong and we are not scammers, your statement is technically illegal. But later in your letter you apologize, so thank you... venting here is probably a good thing. We learn how to fix things that way.

I offer to you to speak with me in person. Write to accountant@areacirculation.net, give me your e-mail or phone number, and we can talk over the phone if you like.



I was offered the same magazine offer I think everyone else here was offered. Had they offered me a magazine that I am interested in, instead of the ones the operator told me I was going to get (no choice in the matter) I may have considered sunscribing. Either way, I'm glad I didn't, and I feel awful the people who have been taken in by this. I have been reading stories of people who were not charges the $74 but were instead charged hundreds.

And therefore I am here fixing any true errors, and addressing the false statements.

On the 'people being charged hundreds, hearing stories and believing them is one thing, but to report that as a truth is hearsay and not worth much in reality. I can't help you with hearsay and theory, only with your account if you have one.

I'll look into the thing about someone volunteering you a magazine choice. I have no idea why they would do that yet, unless you were hesitent and couldn't think of a title. Since you can change titles (check out our list on our website, www.areacirculation.net), just call and let us know what you want...

I feel bad for these people who got scammed. Any company that has to call you uninvited during business hours (you'd think they would wise up by now) and try to sell you anything by promising that you have a slim to no chance of winning some prize that probably doesn't even exists is a sad excuse for a company.

I don't know how you can call it a scam (details edited out per request by host, it seems explaining details is 'selling our product' online... please contact me personally for details.

If you got a call at an inconvenient time, I am sorry.

We strive to get lists of people with good enough demographics to let us know the best time to call

As you know, there are a lot of people working different shifts nowdays, so 'business hours' means a lot of things to a lot of people. Admittedly, we as telemarketers do call at inconvenient times, and if there is anything we would like to change, that would be the first.

I would just like to end it by saying to anyone who may have been called by these people that it is a by the salesmans book scam. How do I know? I don't know for 100% sure, but I do know that I have been contacted by dozens of other companies trying to sell me some sort of crap that I don't want by using some sort of prize as a vessel. Here's a hint Mr. Bellows, do some research before you try to sell the same garbage to everyone you try to sell something to. We don't all want to read GQ magazine. Not everyone is the same, yet you send everyone the same offer. I'm not even a businessman and I know this. Had Area Circulation come to me with something that I wanted I may have considered the offer.

We are definitely revamping that. It may be we got a bad demographic on you that said you wanted GQ.

How do you know what I want? The operator clearly told me that the reason for the call was because I used my credit card to buy something. I'm not even going to get into how much this frightens me, but it's obvious you are monitoring our credit card purchases with out out consent since I don't ever remember entering any sweepstakes or agreeing to speaking with your company. Perhaps you could take a look at what I purchased as a clue into what I like to buy.

The language is vague because we can't get detailed information on your purchase. We wish we could do so legally, but we can't, and as a consumer I'm glad companies can't do that either. Frankly almost everyone in the U.S. uses plastic anyway, so our knowing you used a card is really not much information at all.


I'm not trying to put you or your company down. If it appears this way I apologize. I would just like for once a salesman to approach me with a "killer deal" for something I want. This has never happened to me.

We try to do just that.

Our magazine list is mind boggling. I'll apologize up front for the badly timed phone call, and tell you flat out we wanted to get you magazines and make you happy. Otherwise we don't make money, and in fact lose money.

Sorry for your experience! It's clear that you went from being upset and saying libelous things, down to apologizing if it makes it looke like you are putting down our company.

Sounds to me like we need your input so know where these crazy flaws come from. We blame ourselves of course, and are listening to and watching our salespeople very carefully to find out how misunderstandings can happen.

The 'talking too fast' seems to me where the problem may be. A human over the phone can't absorb information nearly as fast as in person. We are re-writing our scripts to make this go away as much as possible.

[S455y6irL22]

I am a subscriber and was curious as to what I could find on this company.
The wait is very long 8-12 weeks or longer from the date of ordering.
I have read most of the posts on this forum and it made me worry a bit as to if it is really a scam. However, Burt Bellows, whether he's really the IT guy or not, I think makes a whole lot more sense than the complaints and opinions stated here.

I will have to wait and see if my subscriptions come in January, but in terms of customer service and changing the magazines, they're very flexible. If you don't like their list, then don't subscribe is all I have to say.
Although, honestly, I don't understand why their price is so high.

My only complaint and from my own stupidity is that I get these companies mixed up. They all sound like the same company! I kinda got tricked into subscribing to two companies because I thought it was the same one.

That's what I get I guess from not listening completely. But honestly, someone said that they're not allowed to tape consumers? I don't know about other states, but I've pretty much been warned that my conversation is going to be taped for customer service, quality, and training purposes in about 90% of my calls with any large corporation.

I just hope I get the magazines! That'll save me money from getting a lawyer.

[Area Circulation]

Dear Sassygirl22,

I am so glad you wrote. I'll do anything I can to repair our reputation on the web.

First, I assure you we are a long term company ongoing for 20 years now. We have no open BBB issues, and you will definitely get your magazines.

There are other companies doing this, in fact probably hundreds if not more, so sorry if other people are confusing you.

You can write me at accountant@areacirculation.net, and I can give you direct phone information so you can talk to me any time it's convenient for both of us.

I'm the Director of IT, and you can call in to our standard number and ask what the heck Burt Bellows does at Area Circulation. Our receptionist will laugh and probably tell you 'way too much', but ask for my Title. I'm afraid she might just say "He's one of the IT guys".

Now you asked why our price was so high, so I'm thinking maybe there is a misunderstanding! Your mags should be a far better price than you can get subscribing any other way.

I have been told I can't advertise anything in the forum, and the last time I did math for someone, apparently it was considered 'selling' (because it was such a deal? I didn't follow the reasoning, but I'm trying to abide by the rules).

Let me try this... our usual deal is for 5 years. if you pay for 5 years in a one year time frame (we actually pay it all up front for you to initiate a contract with the magazines, so you are paying us 'back' in a sense), it probably seems expensive, until you realize that for 4 more years you get magazines at no more cost. It's been paid in full after a year.

Please write to me and I'll be glad to talk on the phone too. I have to get our reputation up to what it should be. The owner is a great guy that really wants to increase our web presence, 'huge'. We are looking even to hire people nation wide to help with customer service, etc. We'd like to sell mags, and do everything over the web as a convenience.

We are shooting at a system where customers don't even have to call us to change magazines, but can log in and change them at their convenience.

Once I get these web complaints taken care of, I can focus on adding neat features and fun stuff to our site.

If you want to keep track of what's happening with your account, I'll jump on it personally. I've found many complaints that are from people who ordered, and then looked on the web, and stopped paying because people like Peter Cornstalk made assumptions and called us scammers.

All I can say is, 'yikes', because it's cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars and made a lot of people jumpy.

So you can see why I'm so 'on top of this'. I can save the company many times my salary by taking care of what has become a self feeding frenzy of fear.

Call, write, or contact me via ESP. I'll take care of you!

Of course our normal customer service line is available to you also... but don't hesitate to call or write to me, because this has become an emotional issue that I just want to resolve personally. It's at the point now that I'm begging people to contact me, and so far only one has, and he was taken care of in 5 minutes!

Honestly, that makes me wonder how many complaints are legitimate, in that why are not more calling me so I can set things right, unless they know they did something wrong.

Oh well, my hope is everyone will reply and I'll fix it all.

Thanks,

Burt Bellows
Area Circulation
Director of IT

www.areacirculation.net will also have contact information, but accountant@areacirculation.net will get you direct into my e-mail. It was a spare account I had created before that just became convenient to use.

Originally Posted by S455y6irL22

I am a subscriber and was curious as to what I could find on this company.
The wait is very long 8-12 weeks or longer from the date of ordering.
I have read most of the posts on this forum and it made me worry a bit as to if it is really a scam. However, Burt Bellows, whether he's really the IT guy or not, I think makes a whole lot more sense than the complaints and opinions stated here.

I will have to wait and see if my subscriptions come in January, but in terms of customer service and changing the magazines, they're very flexible. If you don't like their list, then don't subscribe is all I have to say.
Although, honestly, I don't understand why their price is so high.

My only complaint and from my own stupidity is that I get these companies mixed up. They all sound like the same company! I kinda got tricked into subscribing to two companies because I thought it was the same one.

That's what I get I guess from not listening completely. But honestly, someone said that they're not allowed to tape consumers? I don't know about other states, but I've pretty much been warned that my conversation is going to be taped for customer service, quality, and training purposes in about 90% of my calls with any large corporation.

I just hope I get the magazines! That'll save me money from getting a lawyer.