Time for a new system?

[brikis98]

My current system, which I bought some 3 years ago is:

Asus p4T533-C
p4 2.26 Ghz
768 MB PC1066 RDRAM
160GB 7200RPM 8MB cache IDE hard drive
Geforce4 ti4400 128mb agp 4x

As it turns out, I can't run battlefield 2, which is pretty upsetting, since I loved the first game. And while a game wouldn't normally prompt me to upgrade, looking at the other games due to come out in the next few years, it looks like it might be time.

I'm going to need a new motherboard, processor, memory, video card, DVD burner, and maybe a case. I can use the 500W PSU, soundcard, monitor, mouse, keyboard, and speakers from my current computer. I'm planning on getting 1 gig of RAM.

So, some questions:

- What's the best CPU for gaming now? I'm guessing it's one of the AMD 64 bit CPU's, but which one is the best value?
- What motherboard should i get for the processor? Should I get one which supports SLI, or are they not worth the money yet?
- Which video card to buy? I've always been a fan of nvidia, and i want something that will last a while, so mabe buy one card that supports SLI and perhaps add another on much further down the road? or is ATI the better value?
- will i be able to tell any difference between a SATA hard drive and the IDE (7200 rpm, 8mb cache) hard drive i have now? ie, should i get a new hard drive or stick w/ my current one?
- what's a good DVD-RW nowadays?

I'm not sure how much I have to spend, but it def. has to be under US $800 total. I use my computer for games (lots of FPS), music, graphics (photoshop), movies, programming. Any advice is greatly appreciated

[sevenal]

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...c=2d84w9&s=bsd

upgrade to 1 GB of 533 DDR2 add $100
256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X850 XT PE [add $540

Choose Drive config

choose 160 GB HDD

gets you to say $1500

$100 cash back
$200 sell 17 in FPM
$300 sell your system

puts you around

$900

[diyrn]

If you need to keep it under $800, forget SLI. It's a huge investment, just the mainboard and two SLI-capable cards could eat up most of your budget.

I myself am using an AMD Athlon64 3000+, which runs at 1.8ghz. I've had it overclocked to 2.5ghz, and the difference between this and my old AthlonXP at 2.3ghz is really negligible, unless I'm encoding a DVD or crunching video, then it's much, much faster. Games are also nicely improved, but not by as large a margin. If you're comfortable with overclocking, then the Venice core A64 is the best entry-level 64-bit cpu. Newegg's got the 3000+ for $148 retail box. You'd probably want a better heatsink if you're going to overclock.
Link to cpu:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103537

Stick with the socket 939 chips, you'll have a longer upgradeability path. Rumor is the dual-core A64's will work in current Socket939 boards with only a BIOS update. MSI makes a nice series of NForce4 based mainboards, starting with this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130491

Of course, you'll need very high speed RAM if you're going to overclock, PC4400 and up, or you can buy cheap PC3200 RAM and utilize the MSI board's memory divider. This will impact performance, though. If you go the high speed route, you need either TCCD or BH5 RAM, or something equivalent. I use the Gskill PC4400 which are Samsung TCCD chips:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231004

There's cheaper PC4400 but if you read the reviews, they simply can't achieve the promised speed.

If you're going to go with a newer vidcard, go PCI-express, the newest cards (Nvidia 7x) won't even be available in AGP. Go with the best Radeon X8 series or Nvidia 6X series card you can afford. Prices on video cards are just simply ridiculous. 256mb RAM cards would be preferable to 128mb cards, but whether it's worth the price difference is something you'll have to decide for yourself.

In my experience, you won't notice the difference between SATA and PATA, so no reason to replace the hard drive now.

I've used Lite-On and NEC DVD-RW drives, and prefer the NEC's. And newegg has the ND3520 DL 16x for $43 shipped, how can you beat that?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827152039

The above list gives you around $300 to spend on a video card, more if you skimp on the RAM.

Hope this helps

[brikis98]

wow, thanks for the quick replies folks. i haven't followed the hardware scene for a while (i've been to broke to care ), so this is helping me catch up.

Sevenal - although I like dell for the most part, I def. wanna put a system together myself, not order a premade one. I don't want to waste money on stuff i don't need such as keyboard, mouse, OS, useless extra software, etc and i wouldn't be able to reuse the parts i have, which would be a waste.

diyrn - when i mentioned SLI, i didn't mean i wanted to buy two vid cards now. I just meant i was thinking about getting a mobo that supports SLI, but only get one vid card. Then, in the future, mabe i'd get a second vid card if i needed it to boost performance. of course, mabe SLI mobos are too expensive as it is, i'm not sure.

if the socket 939 boards will support the dual core chips (which i've read they will), then you're prob right - they would make a good investment. i'll take a look at the athlon 64, but what about the FX chips and FX-51 and whatever other flavors are out there? are they really pricey? is the extra money worth the performance? and if i don't overclock, will the heatsink/fan that come w/ the CPU be good enough?

if i get RAM that's higher than the FSB of the mobo, but don't overclock, will i lose performance from asynchronous operation? i've never been a fan of overclocking (i value stability and unmelted CPUs ), so mabe i could save some money here.

finally, any1 know which nvida 6xxx card has the best bang for the buck? and are they going to drop in price because of the release of the 7xxx cards?

thanks again ppl, and keep the good info coming

[bombledmonk]

If you want to try your hand at overclocking(which can be a fun hobby) you best bet is to get a Venice core Athlon 64 chip. Last time I looked 3200+ was the lowest they came and probably the best choice overall. Pair that with a good cooler like an Thermalright XP-90 or XP-120 and you'll have a great setup to go fast. If you don't overclock, yes the stock HSF will be good enough if you don't mind noise

Personally I wouldn't buy an SLI setup though it might be worth it for you. I don't think they have enough to offer in the long run. It may sound nice to be able to pick up a 6800GT in the future for $150, but by time you can do that you'll be able to pick up a single mid range card that has newer technologies and will outperform the SLI pair for $200-300. Time will tell I guess....

FX chips are out of the question on your budget as even some of the cheapest ones would take 2/3rds or more of it. They are for serious overclockers anyways as they have unlocked multipliers and can go sky high on the right setup.

No you won't loose performance if you buy higher rated ram and do not overclock. The ratings such as PC3200 or PC4000 are ONLY the speeds that that stick of ram has been tested to. That number is not the set speed that it will run, in reality there is no such thing as RAM above PC3200 as that is the higest ratified specification. The manufacturers just give you a number that they guarentee the stick will run at. Anything below that should be fine as well...

The best bang for the buck video card shuffles around for each level you go up. In the less than $200 range the 6600GT is by far the best choice as it can be had for as little as $160 if you find the right deal and it is a great performer. Above that The 6800GT of X800XL(or possibly pro) would be great choices. Latelly 6800GT prices have been varying wildly, but in general the X800XL's under $300 price point is the best bet for the money. **Edit**Monarch has the X800XL for $249..... great price on great card....

And one more point I'd like to bring up. DO NOT skimp on the PSU. This is the heart of your system and should not be an afterthough as many people tend to do. Antec and Enermax are the brands I personally recommend, some here also like Thermaltake but I'm not quite on that bandwagon yet. Just don't use a PSU that comes with a case, the are trash and should be treated accordingly.

[rabidaardvark]

I pretty much agree with everything said except Winchesters and Venice cored chips really really don't need a new HSF. I'm overclocking my 3000+ from 1.8 to 2.3 and it has only hit 41C a a handful of occations. Venice is much the same as are the 754 Semprons. Try the stock heatsink if it's not enough then buy but I haven't heard of a person reaching 50C with any of those cores.

[diyrn]

well, the FX chips start at $809 OEM at Newegg, $811 at ZipZoomFly, and you can get a dual-core now for a lot less than that....

If you're not going to overclock, there's no point really in paying a premium for high-speed RAM. You could get better latency timings out of it, but I doubt it's something you'll notice, and certainly not worth the extra you'd pay for it. PC3200 is really at a historic low lately, you can conceivably get a gig of middle-of-the-road RAM for $50-80.

Pretty much all the Winchester and Venice core A64's seem to max out at ~2.5ghz, whether you buy the 1.8ghz or the 2.4. You're not going to melt the cpu by overclocking it, and half the fun of overclocking is the tweaking until you achieve stability.

I understood what you meant about the SLI setup. But consider, the MSI board I linked above sells for ~$90, but the SLI version goes for ~$150...so you pay a premium before you even commit to a second card. For most of us this simply isn't worth it.

And RA is correct, you certainly could try to overclock using the stock HS/F, but you'll most likely need a better aftermarket solution if you intend to hit 2.5ghz.

Bombledmonk is spot-on with the PSU recommendations, as well as the video cards...it really depends on what you want to spend.

[sevenal]

Glad I stuck around for this conversation.

Good stuff folks.

I just have never gotten over how much extra it costs to
make an AMD rig Quiet and run Cool.

Oh also Buy.com has the AGP version
of the 6600GT 128 meg for $139 AFR and there are some
$10 coupons floating around for $10 off $175.

So $130 or so.

Is this a good compromise for folks with 8x AGP ?

Im just upgrading to Ti 4600 myself, I had several of these Ti cards but never kept one for myself as the 4200 served me ok.

just stoking the coals

sev

[diyrn]

sevenal,

I've put several AGP 6600GT's into system builds, they're a very solid card. About 20% faster in games than my aging 9800XT.

[brikis98]

Ok, so from what I've gathered, it sounds like the FX processors are out of the question and AMD Athlon 64 is the best way to go. Also, SLI is not a good idea now, so I guess I'll avoid that. Here's a config I threw together on newegg (prices in US $):

- AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice Socket 939: $146
- ABIT AX8 Socket 939 VIA K8T890 Motherboard: $77
- OCZ Performance 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200): 2 sticks (1 GB total) for $115.50
- POWERCOLOR R43C-TD3D/BULK Radeon X800XL 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card: $285
- NEC Beige IDE DVD Burner Model ND-3520A BG: $42

Total: $665

I'm going to use the 500W power supply, sound card, 160GB hard drive, mouse, keyboard, speakers & monitor from my old computer. I also need a case, which will push me closer to my $800 limit.

What do you guys think of the system? Is the motherboard any good? It's a socket 939 1000Mhz FSB DDR 400 (dual channel) mobo with 1 PCI Express x16 slot, 3 PCI Express x1 slots, 2 PCI slots, built in LAN, sound & firewire, 4 USB 2.0 ports... but the uber low price makes me suspicious.

Is the RAM any good? I've heard good things about OCZ, but are there better alternatives (or a diff model)?

Is the $285 X800XL worth the extra money over the $165 6600GT?

And does anyone know of a good case? I DON'T care if it's loud, so long as it has good cooling and is cheap

thanks again for all the help folks.